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Thread: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

  1. #1

    Default Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Seen on eBay today:

    "Vintage Goya A-Style Mandolin. A very nice mandolin. Uncertain of its age, it appears to be from the 70's."

    Ok so yeah I'm an old geezerette, but still, IMO the 1970s hardly qualifies as vintage.

    Am I being too cynical in thinking that people tack the word "vintage" onto anything and everything just to get a higher price out of it? So is this the new 'thing' to do, to label stuff as vintage when it's (a) not even all that old and (b) probably wasn't even worth much in the first place?

    Maybe I should start saving our dryer lint. In a mere few years, that lint will be "vintage" and therefore worth a lot of money.

  2. #2
    Registered User John Rosett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Well, 1970 was 48 years ago. I'm surprised that they didn't refer to it as "mid-century".
    "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny" - john waters

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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    It depends upon your understanding of the term "Vintage". Taken literally, it simply means the "age of wine" - some years being better than others - but the music world seems to have adopted the term to mean something different; i.e. particularly old and made before a certain date. In my mind this is wrong, somewhat confusing and an invitation to creative marketing.

    I would rather know the age of something rather than being expected to accept that something described as "vintage" was inherrently better than something not so old.

    (Not many people know this but the majority of Moet & Chandon's Champagne production doesn't have a date on the bottle!)

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  6. #4

    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    that might be a decent deal if it goes at near the price listed. i have a goya f 5 replica which is a great mandolin

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    I struggled with this for years. The 50's doesn't seem like vintage to me and all those 60's Harmony and Kay instruments don't have mojo in my book they were just crappy instruments that I bought because I couldn't afford the good ones. I had to come to the realization that even though I am of a certain age the majority of the folks around me were younger and in their eyes I am vintage. I've learned to look the other way and smile. To a 20 year old 48 years is a long time ago. To somebody in their 60's it seems like yesterday.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    I guess in one sense of the word a mandolin 50 years old is vintage, but as Mike said if you played them because that was all you could afford, it's hard to put a seemingly good term like vintage on that cheap junk.

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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    The year 1980 (the last year of the '70s) was 38 years ago. I don't know what defines 'vintage' but cars are considered 'antique' after 25 years. Based on that, I can see a 45 or so year old instrument as 'vintage'.
    When the sun beats down and I lie on the bench, I can always hear them talk.
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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    The term always seems to be a moving target in musical instruments. As older instruments become less available to an "average" person, then something that was previously ignored will then become vintage. For Mike's example, the 1950's and 1960's catalog stuff is still US made and to a lot of younger folks has the cool factor needed for a band. And some don't sound bad, IMO. Definitely not a Fern, or even an F4. But a tone that doesn't sound like everything else out there and can be made to play well.

    Remember, we're not the target market. Just like adults weren't when the Sears Wish Book came out.

    Full disclosure - I happen to like some of the off beat instruments and my main electric guitar is a cheapo where I added a 1960's no-name Japanese pickup just for the sound.
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    ...Maybe I should start saving our dryer lint. In a mere few years, that lint will be "vintage" and therefore worth a lot of money.
    Perhaps vintage lint from Bill Monroe's dryer? I mean, the lint for Elvis Presley's dryer might be worth more but Bill's would be of more interest to the mandolin community.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Oh come on! Until eBay decided it was a great term to use for “old stuff”, it was almost exclusively used for older anything which was made well and collectible. Now, “Vintage” is much like “New and Improved” same crap different label.
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    I think a lot of folks, especially younger ones, rely on the Urban dictionary for word meanings rather than the Websters.

    The first entry provided here is probably they're interpretation of "Vintage".

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vintage

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Well Zach,
    Since those dolts can’t use the proper form of “Patrick” for the Saints day I don’t give UHC credence to that style of “dictionary”
    “Patties” is the plural of patty a flattened cookie or mound of meat which has been “patted” to flat.
    “Patty”is the abbreviation for Patricia.
    “Paddy” is the familiar form of Patrick,
    So I guess they are wishing us all a happy cookie of hamburger day.
    End rant.
    Where’s my Jameson’s?
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Ah, the ‘70s. My children, who are now young adults, used to take delight in reminding my wife and I that we were born “way back in the 1900s.” One’s definition of “old” is solidly influenced by their vintage, IMHO. I wouldn’t consider my 1974 Martin Style A “vintage,” and will not list it as such if I ever sell it, but that’s because I was born that year. My kids would have no trouble labeling it “vintage”
    Chuck

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Vintage changes depending on object, too; a "vintage" shirt you pick up at Goodwill or wherever can be from the 1980s (!) and a "vintage" video game (yes, I've heard the term) would be from the -- er -- 1990s or aughts. it has become, as someone said, a marketing term. A "vintage" building in our neck of the woods hails from, say, the late 1880s, early 1900s where in older countries those are considered practically contemporary! The oldest buildings around here, which were built in the late 1600s, aren't considered "vintage" as much as "historic." I guess we need to worry if our birthdate becomes "historic" as opposed to "vintage" or something!
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  28. #15

    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    ... all those 60's Harmony and Kay instruments don't have mojo in my book they were just crappy instruments that I bought because I couldn't afford the good ones. ...
    Exactly. That's why I get a little confused when I see the term "vintage" applied to instruments like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    ... I had to come to the realization that even though I am of a certain age the majority of the folks around me were younger and in their eyes I am vintage. ...
    Or in my case, I'm just plain old.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    ... I've learned to look the other way and smile. ...
    That works.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    ... To a 20 year old 48 years is a long time ago. To somebody in their 60's it seems like yesterday.
    Yeah that's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    ... I happen to like some of the off beat instruments ...
    Same here, but only if they're playable and not just like strumming a cardboard box or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    ... my main electric guitar is a cheapo where I added a 1960's no-name Japanese pickup just for the sound.
    I do love finding economical ways to do things!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Perhaps vintage lint from Bill Monroe's dryer? I mean, the lint for Elvis Presley's dryer might be worth more but Bill's would be of more interest to the mandolin community.
    Lol! Yes, good one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Oh come on! Until eBay decided it was a great term to use for "old stuff", it was almost exclusively used for older anything which was made well and collectible. Now, "Vintage" is much like "New and Improved" same crap different label.
    Yeah that's what I was thinking too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    I think a lot of folks, especially younger ones, rely on the Urban dictionary for word meanings rather than the Websters.

    The first entry provided here is probably they're interpretation of "Vintage".

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vintage
    Thanks - that would explain it, alright.

    An aside: Once in a rare while I do check the Urban Dictionary too, to make sure there isn't some new obscene/unexpected meaning to some old time-honored word or phrase that I might want to use. It's difficult to keep up with all the changes in slang. I think I stopped updating my slang language skills sometime after I'd adopted usage of the words "dude" and "my bad" (I still use those, I find them amusing), so that's been a while... as I vaguely recall "dude" appeared in the 1980s and the first time I heard anyone say "my bad" was in the 1990s or so. But whatever new slang words have come up since then, I have no clue! But I've made a conscious decision to go ahead and revive some of the oldies that had went out of vogue for a while - such as "neat" (1940s or so), "groovy" & "hip" & "trippy", (1960s), "right on" (early 1970s or so), and probably others I can't think of at the moment. After I got into computers, it took me years just to get comfortable writing stuff such as "lol". In more recent years I've learned some phone text-message abbreviations from friends I text with, although now with the 'smart' phones and fast 'swipe' keyboards the abbreviations aren't needed as much. Language can be fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Well Zach,
    Since those dolts can't use the proper form of "Patrick" for the Saints day I don't give UHC credence to that style of "dictionary"
    "Patties" is the plural of patty a flattened cookie or mound of meat which has been "patted" to flat.
    "Patty"is the abbreviation for Patricia.
    "Paddy" is the familiar form of Patrick,
    So I guess they are wishing us all a happy cookie of hamburger day.
    End rant. ...
    Lol! Good observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    ... I wouldn't consider my 1974 Martin Style A "vintage," and will not list it as such if I ever sell it, but that's because I was born that year. ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Randi Gormley View Post
    Vintage changes depending on object, too; a "vintage" shirt you pick up at Goodwill or wherever can be from the 1980s (!) and a "vintage" video game (yes, I've heard the term) would be from the -- er -- 1990s or aughts. it has become, as someone said, a marketing term. A "vintage" building in our neck of the woods hails from, say, the late 1880s, early 1900s where in older countries those are considered practically contemporary! The oldest buildings around here, which were built in the late 1600s, aren't considered "vintage" as much as "historic." I guess we need to worry if our birthdate becomes "historic" as opposed to "vintage" or something!
    Excellent points!

  29. #16
    Registered User Roger Moss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    Ah, the ‘70s. My children, who are now young adults, used to take delight in reminding my wife and I that we were born “way back in the 1900s.” One’s definition of “old” is solidly influenced by their vintage, IMHO. I wouldn’t consider my 1974 Martin Style A “vintage,” and will not list it as such if I ever sell it, but that’s because I was born that year. My kids would have no trouble labeling it “vintage”
    Indeed. I was a teen in the '70s and I remember things made back then being mostly crap. There were exceptions, though. I had a plywood Epiphone guitar for a while that was actually rather nice, though not worth much.
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Vintage=perceived value increased due to age.

    For the mandolin market, that would still mean prewar, right? For a fender electric bass, people have been paying a "vintage" premium for instruments built in the 70s for quite a while. A double bass built in the 70s would be considered raw.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    The word vintage originally only referred to wine as in "the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced" or "relating to or denoting wine of high quality."

    Now it is applied to anything "too old to be considered modern, but not old enough to be considered antique."

    I recall many decades ago that antique was anything over 100 years old. These days I haven't a clue where the line is drawn between antique and vintage or if any of this means anything.
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    For me, it's a twist on an old phrase . . . . 'Vintage is in the eye of the beholder'.

    In 1974, if I came across a baseball card from 1967, I thought it was OLD, (we didn't use the word 'vintage' back then). When a schoolmate told me that some famous guitar player had a 1959 Les Paul, I considered that to be REALLY OLD.

    Looking back, the baseball card was only 7 years old, and the Les Paul was only 15 years old. By today's standards, it would be laughable for me to call a 2011 baseball card 'old', and a 2003 Les Paul 'Really Old' - but in 1974 these terms were used simply as my personal perception of the day.

    At my age of 56, the 1980's seemed like only yesterday - but to someone like my son who is only 26, the 1980's were literally per-historic times for him . . . it's all a matter of personal perception; or as we would say in Debate Class, 'Qualifying your terms'.


    p.s. - Back in the late 1990's, a Goya GM23 was my first oval hole mandolin. I loved it, but I had to sell it to upgrade to a cool-looking black Morgan Monroe f-style . . . I still miss that old Goya and hope to replace it someday.
    I recently finished a new homemade 4-song EP of original solo acoustic songs; (sorry, no mandolin content this time). If you are interested in a FREE copy, feel free to send me your address via Private Message, and I will be glad to send you one. Trust me, it will be worth the price!


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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    In the antiques and collectible world, the term Vintage generally refers to something made in the 60's and 70's. The 50's would be considered Retro. These are used loosely and have no true meaning like Antique (over 100 years old).

    The general usage to describe an items age, would make 70's "vintage". This is the widely accepted meaning outside of musical instruments.

    Vintage Posters, Vintage Jeans, etc... If some one said that, most people would assume circa 60s-70s.
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  39. #21

    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    I like that so many who are upset at the popular definition of "vintage" (something around 40 years old or older) are arguing that their own popular definition be used (something of X years old or older), instead of the actual technical definition (the year *any* particular wine, or any product, was produced).

    Various vintages of fine wines, and even fine mandolins, are available, including just last year.

    When arguing that another person is incorrectly using a word, it's helpful to not incorrectly use the word oneself.
    Playing a no-point 14-fret-to-the-body oval-hole with scroll, a Flatiron 1SH mandola (original owner), a McNally Ukulele Strumstick in CGDA mandola tuning, a McNally 4-string Chromatic Strumstick in GDAE octave mandolin tuning, and rocking my six-course, unison-tuned 12-string Ovation mandophone/extended cittern in CGDAEB Full Fifths Tuning...

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  41. #22

    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    Maybe I should start saving our dryer lint. In a mere few years, that lint will be "vintage" and therefore worth a lot of money.
    Along those lines, 30 years ago a local vintage guitar shop had in the corner of their glass showcase, a clear string package with rusty strings in it and marked "Jimi Hendrix' used strings and the price of $5,000. Supposedly, they came from a repairman and they were "legit" but mostly just struck me as a stupid thing to do. Again, years before eBay and what would anybody do with them, except have as a weird trophy.....still kinda makes me mad. Maybe it was an "ironic" joke that I didn't get......

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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    Vintage=perceived value increased due to age.

    For the mandolin market, that would still mean prewar, right? ...
    That's what I always thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    ... For a fender electric bass, people have been paying a "vintage" premium for instruments built in the 70s for quite a while. A double bass built in the 70s would be considered raw.
    Ok I see now, it depends on the type of item - that makes sense!

    So then things that age really quickly, such as electronics gadgets and computer gear and video games, become "vintage" (or "legacy", or on the downside, "obsolete") much quicker than other items which have a longer shelf-life...

    Hmm... now that I think about it, my last old Mac computer had already acquired "vintage" and "classic" status (it was my daily workhorse computer for well over a decade before I switched to Linux and then Windows), although in the case of my old Mac its value quickly diminished over time, instead of becoming more valuable (at a mere 2 years old, its resale value was a tiny fraction of its new price, that's how I ended up with it). But still, the idea was there that such things were so ancient at only a few years old that they'd already become classic, legacy, vintage etc. And of course nowadays, the tech life-cycle seems even drastically shorter. Although I would hope to never see a 2-year-old "vintage cellphone" on eBay but ya never know what people will try just to sell something. I'd just never seen that philosophy applied to musical instruments up until more recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    The word vintage originally only referred to wine as in "the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced" or "relating to or denoting wine of high quality."

    Now it is applied to anything "too old to be considered modern, but not old enough to be considered antique." ...
    Yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    For me, it's a twist on an old phrase . . . . 'Vintage is in the eye of the beholder'. ...
    Seems that way alright...

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    In the antiques and collectible world, the term Vintage generally refers to something made in the 60's and 70's. The 50's would be considered Retro. These are used loosely and have no true meaning like Antique (over 100 years old).

    The general usage to describe an items age, would make 70's "vintage". This is the widely accepted meaning outside of musical instruments.

    Vintage Posters, Vintage Jeans, etc... If some one said that, most people would assume circa 60s-70s.
    Ok, I didn't know that. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    ... 30 years ago a local vintage guitar shop had in the corner of their glass showcase, a clear string package with rusty strings in it and marked "Jimi Hendrix' used strings and the price of $5,000. Supposedly, they came from a repairman and they were "legit" but mostly just struck me as a stupid thing to do. Again, years before eBay and what would anybody do with them, except have as a weird trophy.....still kinda makes me mad. Maybe it was an "ironic" joke that I didn't get......
    Yeah... I can kind of see how some zealous fan might want something like that, but I dunno... just makes me glad I'm not a famous mandolinist, I wouldn't want people rummaging through my trash looking for discarded mandolin strings that they could sell at some ridiculous profit.

    If nothing else, in the case of the Jimi Hendrix strings, seems like any profits should have went to his estate, not to some random music store or some repairman who'd perhaps squirreled the strings away after doing repair work or something. But, I don't know the whole story so I might be making incorrect assumptions there... but I agree with you that it seems a little odd... I wonder if that store ever found a buyer for those $5000 strings?

  44. #24
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    I think it depends on the types of instruments you're assigning the term "vintage" to: certainly as a drummer I would consider a 1960's Gretsch drum kit "vintage", and and a 1960's Fender Telecaster "vintage".
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    Default Re: Since when is 1970s "vintage" ?

    Now just suppose a builder made a mandolin out of wood that was say 100 years old, would that make the instrument "vintage" right away?...John Duffey converted an F-2 mandolin into an F-5 by using wood from an old clipper ship that used to come up the Potomac River back in the 1800`s, wouldn`t that be considered vintage as soon as it was built?...This can get complicated can`t it?

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