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Thread: Don't you just hate it when ...

  1. #1
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Don't you just hate it when ...

    You learn a tune, experiment with it and live with it a while and fall in love with the sound of it. Then you record it. Listen to the playback. And say, "what the ... ?"

    And I really thought I was sounding good.
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    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Or you spend hours practicing a piece to get all the fingering down, then go play with a group and suddenly your brain and your fingers aren't speaking.
    2012 Weber Bitterroot F5.

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    Be Wild Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Or.... spending hours learning a new tune, getting it down pat, and showing up to a jam where nobody knows it.

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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    You learn a tune, experiment with it and live with it a while and fall in love with the sound of it. Then you record it. Listen to the playback. And say, "what the ... ?"

    And I really thought I was sounding good.
    Lol yeah I know what you mean.

    FWIW, I find it somewhat helpful to record the tune earlier on during the tune-learning process, that way I have a better chance of noticing stuff that isn't working and changing it before it becomes an ingrained habit. Otherwise it's harder to unlearn the 'bad' parts I'd been playing for umpteen weeks.

    Many of the videos I've posted were recorded during that shaking-out-the-bugs phase, they often have lots of stuff that I listen to now and think, "What the heck was I thinking when I played that note?" A result of typically wanting to get something posted in a timely manner, without taking weeks/months to get it 'right'. It's all part of the learning process I guess.

    But there are some really stubborn tunes that seem to resist all attempts at getting a proper recording. Ironically, it's often the slower tunes that have the fewest notes and are the physically easiest to play, that are the hardest to make sound right. An example of such a tune (for me, anyway) is "Nancy" aka "Nancy's March" (written notation with the usual TheSession arguing over tune origins) - here is someone's really pretty banjo and guitar version, and here's a fiddle band version. So once ever so often I play the tune on mandolin and I'm thinking "Yeah that sounds good," but - as you said - upon listening to the recording of my playing, it's like "Ugh, nope," erase!

    In that particular tune, the notes themselves are a cinch to play, but making it sound pretty and with the right expression, is another matter. I don't actually like all the notes "as written" (normal for me!) but I can hear in my mind some nice variations, but when I play my variations, it's still lacking something. Will keep working at it, who knows, maybe someday I'll figure it out.

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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    Or.... spending hours learning a new tune, getting it down pat, and showing up to a jam where nobody knows it.
    Or they know the tune but they're leaving out half the chords or playing entirely wrong chords. So you're faced with the choice to play it in a way that you don't like the sound of, just to fit in with the 7 guitar players who are all playing these chords.

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    I second JL's point about early recording. Having done this several times I also tend to listen to my own playing more "from the outside", anticipating what a recording will be like, but surprises keep coming.

    It's a bit like you resolved to give people a friendly smile more often, until a photo reveals that what you have practised is a demonic grin.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    It's a bit like you resolved to give people a friendly smile more often, until a photo reveals that what you have practised is a demonic grin.
    A wonderful analogy
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    My own worst experiences have been coming up with a brand new tune of my own,getting the basic melody line down, then, trying to improvise on it to the extent that i forgot what i kicked off with !. I think that there's a need for some form of recording in that scenario.
    In the book - ''Masters of the 5-string Banjo'' (Wernick /Trishka), Bela Fleck mentioned that he always recorded his practicing in case something new showed up,
    Ivan
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    You learn a tune, experiment with it and live with it a while and fall in love with the sound of it. Then you record it. Listen to the playback. And say, "what the ... ?"

    And I really thought I was sounding good.
    I once had very opposite experience. I listened to a recorded jam session on friend's phone and commented "wow, the mandolin guy REALLY rips it, cool intro...", I didn't understand why they stared at me in such way... and told me "it was YOU!". I couldn't remember a bit from that jam and even considered learning the solo from the recording...
    Too bad I had this happen just once...
    Adrian

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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    But I remember some tapes of our earliest attempts at creating a band... We thought we did the ending right spot on, all four together and expressed it on the recording loudly enough, but few years later we all had a good laugh as in reality we barely ended within the same measure :-)
    Adrian

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    Too bad I had this happen just once...
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    en kunnskapssøker James Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Have been working on this tune that I thought started when I got the Weber. Realized it was further back when I had an overtone flute, or perhaps even further yet on the didgeridoo. Guess it is how the mind interprets the song.

    Didgeridoo playing, thought I sounded good. Recorded on a Casio CyberShot.... Gah! Horrible. GoPro Hero Session was a lot better. Other didge players said to use a microphone in the bell, or a pickup at the 'magic spot' up near the mouth - or both.

    Then on the mandolins I've had some good days. Smartphone doesn't pick up as well. Gave up on the digital camera. GoPro Hero Session is way more better at recording. And I record with others to get feedback on myself playing with a group.

    Thought about the Zoom H4n. If I do not sound the best with what I have then perhaps it would not be worth investing in one until I get much better. Then thought of getting a Fishman Loudbox Mini... and since it can use a microphone too I could play the didge with the Weber at same time - I dare not sing.

    Yet even the best gadgets won't make a person sound better than they are, so am putting off the urge up until I gain more confidence in my play.
    • Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •

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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Or spending a ton of time learning a tune, then find out everyone plays it in keys other than the on you learned. Very common in the local Scandinavian music community.

    As to too many guitar players, guilty. That's another reason why I am learning mandolin. Around here more than 2 guitars is too many. There can be 5 banjos & 6 mandolins. Fine. Four guitars? Nope.

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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    I found I could either keep recording and get used to retching, or quit recording. So I quit recording.

  23. #15

    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Yup, Mark, that sucks. What's worse: coming up with a really cool riff or progression or turn of phrase or melody, working it into a new song, and then realizing a few days or months or years later that it's something you'd heard or read somewhere else and "forgotten."

    I call it a My-Sweet-Lord-on-the-Stairway-To-Heaven moment.

    On the sunny side, plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery . . . .

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    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    When your asked to play at a dinner party,and at the party,while your playing some jazzy " dinner music",,right in the middle the host goes and cranks up the metal channel..

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    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    For me, what is worst is when I write a new piece, work out all the arrangements, get into the studio, record it, mix it . . . and then decide I don't like it.

    Or, I lay down a nice track on a particular recording, don't play it again for a while - and then it takes me FOREVER to re-learn my own piece!
    I recently finished a new homemade 4-song EP of original solo acoustic songs; (sorry, no mandolin content this time). If you are interested in a FREE copy, feel free to send me your address via Private Message, and I will be glad to send you one. Trust me, it will be worth the price!


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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    OR, Getting ready to start a song that I wrote and played 1,000 times and could not remember the kick off...Stuff like this happens when you are in a band and when it happens to me I just try and make a joke out of it, by saying, "I guess I should have came to the last practice" or something on that order...I find that audiences sometimes like to hear a mistake, it shows that the band members are human...I am more human than most people though....

    Willie

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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    OR, Getting ready to start a song that I wrote and played 1,000 times and could not remember the kick off...Stuff like this happens when you are in a band and when it happens to me I just try and make a joke out of it, by saying, "I guess I should have came to the last practice" or something on that order...I find that audiences sometimes like to hear a mistake, it shows that the band members are human...I am more human than most people though....

    Willie
    If I had a dollar for how many times we're ready to start a song and one of us looks around and says "How does this song go again?"
    Being right is overrated. Doing right is what matters.

  28. #20
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by gspiess View Post
    If I had a dollar for how many times we're ready to start a song and one of us looks around and says "How does this song go again?"
    Or worse yet, when you are playing with someone who seems to habitually change keys and/or tempo, almost every time they do a song.
    I recently finished a new homemade 4-song EP of original solo acoustic songs; (sorry, no mandolin content this time). If you are interested in a FREE copy, feel free to send me your address via Private Message, and I will be glad to send you one. Trust me, it will be worth the price!


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  29. #21
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Yup, Mark, that sucks. What's worse: coming up with a really cool riff or progression or turn of phrase or melody, working it into a new song, and then realizing a few days or months or years later that it's something you'd heard or read somewhere else and "forgotten."

    I call it a My-Sweet-Lord-on-the-Stairway-To-Heaven moment.

    On the sunny side, plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery . . . .
    When I just start noodling aimlessly and music begins to come out, I'm always convinced it must be something I've heard before. And if I keep on, and have to work a bit to find phrases to fit and follow, I'm still convinced I probably am just playing something that's already been written somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    OR, Getting ready to start a song that I wrote and played 1,000 times and could not remember the kick off...Stuff like this happens when you are in a band and when it happens to me I just try and make a joke out of it, by saying, "I guess I should have came to the last practice" or something on that order...I find that audiences sometimes like to hear a mistake, it shows that the band members are human...I am more human than most people though....

    Willie
    I once decided to use an old Jethro Burns joke at the beginning of a set, I announced that I always get real nervous and messed up my first number, so tonight I had a solution - I was going to just the skip the first number and start with the second. The joke got their attention, and the song went well because the energy was good.

    Trouble was that after I butchered the second tune, a heckler shouts, "That was number one, wasn't it?"
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
    "Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN
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  30. #22
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    I once decided to use an old Jethro Burns joke at the beginning of a set, I announced that I always get real nervous and messed up my first number, so tonight I had a solution - I was going to just the skip the first number and start with the second. The joke got their attention, and the song went well because the energy was good.

    Trouble was that after I butchered the second tune, a heckler shouts, "That was number one, wasn't it?"
    Are you sure that wasn't Jethro in the audience?

    That's why I only do original songs when I perform live . . . this way if I screw them up, nobody knows the difference!
    I recently finished a new homemade 4-song EP of original solo acoustic songs; (sorry, no mandolin content this time). If you are interested in a FREE copy, feel free to send me your address via Private Message, and I will be glad to send you one. Trust me, it will be worth the price!


    Mike Zito YouTube Channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO-...ow=grid&view=0

  31. #23
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Used to record my singing once per year and then decide not to sing for another year.

    I stopped all that a few years ago when I discovered that when you get old, nobody expects much of you and you can just have fun!!
    (I still try to do the best that I can. )
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  32. #24

    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    Or worse yet, when you are playing with someone who seems to habitually change keys and/or tempo, almost every time they do a song.
    Hey, you played with my Dad...he is notorious for that. I love him, very close to him, but will NOT take lessons from him for that exact reason. Typical session:

    "Okay, play this run up, then this chord for two measures, then this run up"
    Play it. Start over only now completely discordant. I am like, "Did I hit the wrong note?
    He has me show him what I did. "No, that is right, except instead of C I decided to play it in F# and use a passing chord."
    Uh...well played Dad but I am not on that level...


    for the OP...is it possible to nail a song, know you have it, record it for the first time and NOT have it sound like 3 drunken monkeys playing the dulcimer?

  33. #25
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't you just hate it when ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Barton View Post
    for the OP...is it possible to nail a song, know you have it, record it for the first time and NOT have it sound like 3 drunken monkeys playing the dulcimer?
    I think I may have been told once that it is possible.

    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
    "Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN
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