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Thread: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

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    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    I'm figuring out a bluegrass kick off in C. For the G7 chord I've settled on a chord with a bluesy flatted 3rd and a raised 5th. 0 - 8 - 6 - x The only name I can come up with is Gmb6. What would y'all name it?

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Well TECHNICALLY it's a first-inversion Eb major (Eb-G-Bb).

    Or a gm augmented? But you don't have a VII in it.

    I wish I had a mando in my hands to play around with it.

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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Surely it's an Eb major triad - Eb, G, Bb?
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Tritone substitution?

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Quote Originally Posted by RonEllison View Post
    Tritone substitution?
    A tritone sub for G would be Db/C# (this would sound pretty gypsy-jazz)

    The tritone of C would be Gb/F# (metal!!)

    He’s got a leading tone with the Eb, but it’s also opening himself up to a 2-5-1 turnaround toward F if he wanted to, later in the song

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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Streip View Post
    A tritone sub for G would be Db/C# (this would sound pretty gypsy-jazz)

    The tritone of C would be Gb/F# (metal!!)

    He’s got a leading tone with the Eb, but it’s also opening himself up to a 2-5-1 turnaround toward F if he wanted to, later in the song
    How is Eb a leading tone? Leading to what?

    Tritone subs are 7th chords (so that they include a tritone), so the tritone sub for G7 is Db7.

    In your other post you said it might be a Gm augmented. There is no such thing.

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Eb leans towards E, the third of the C chord, which his chord is preceding.

    He’s not asking for a substitution, he’s asking what the name of his triad would be. It’s an inverted Eb major, but if he wants to call it a G chord, then it’s a G Minor sharp 5.

    I believe I said the sub would be Db, if that WAS what he needed. Not Eb, as his triad implies.

    Apologies for The misnomer of G minor augmented

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    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Eb/G

    The only reason to find a name is to chart it for someone else to understand it and play it. If that is really the goal I would just call it Eb/G. This puts on Eb on top, the G in the bass, and implies the Bb in the chord as well as perhaps an extra G above the bass.

    If a kickoff for a tune began with the IV seventh chord (F7) and the bass went up to G while the harmony went down to Eb it would want to resolve into C tonality, and this would work fine (even if the bass went down to Eb instead of up to G).

    It's nice if the naming is consistent with theoretical harmonic purpose, but jazz folks never worry about that, using whatever name yields the bass line and scale that goes with the melody at a given moment.
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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Hall View Post
    I'm figuring out a bluegrass kick off in C. For the G7 chord I've settled on a chord with a bluesy flatted 3rd and a raised 5th. 0 - 8 - 6 - x The only name I can come up with is Gmb6. What would y'all name it?
    Well you described it as having a raised 5th, but you named it b6. Raised 5th (augmented ) is what it sounds more like: Gm#5, but it isn't dominant without an F.
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    If this is against a G7 chord, the Bb note is probably functioning less like a minor (b3) and more like a #9. Jazz players use #9 (1 3 5 b7 #9) a lot. With a #5 as well, it is functioning like an altered dominant (1 3 b5 #5 b7 b9 #9). Another chord used regularly by Jazzers.

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Hall View Post
    I'm figuring out a bluegrass kick off in C. For the G7 chord I've settled on a chord with a bluesy flatted 3rd and a raised 5th. 0 - 8 - 6 - x The only name I can come up with is Gmb6. What would y'all name it?
    The wrong chord.

    Quote Originally Posted by RonEllison View Post
    Tritone substitution?
    Nope.

    The only actual simple non-jazz sub for a full G7 is either the plain G chord or the B dim triad.

  14. #12
    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    I appreciate all of your replies. It's obvious that the chord could have multiple descriptions based on the context in which it is used.
    I was hunting/listening for a strong chord that would resolve to a standard bluegrass C5 double stop x - 5 - 3 - x in the song "Walls of Time". The flatted third (Bb) sounded great and bluesy with the open G string but I couldn't find a chord tone of G7 that gave me the punch I was hearing in my head. Experimentation produced the D# which was the interval I was searching for. After reading your posts, I realized that the D# or Eb is actually a leading tone to the E, which is an implied third of the C5 double stop.
    Thanks again for your comments.

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    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Substitution for G dominant seventh chord

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Hall View Post
    I appreciate all of your replies. It's obvious that the chord could have multiple descriptions based on the context in which it is used.
    I was hunting/listening for a strong chord that would resolve to a standard bluegrass C5 double stop x - 5 - 3 - x in the song "Walls of Time". The flatted third (Bb) sounded great and bluesy with the open G string but I couldn't find a chord tone of G7 that gave me the punch I was hearing in my head. Experimentation produced the D# which was the interval I was searching for. After reading your posts, I realized that the D# or Eb is actually a leading tone to the E, which is an implied third of the C5 double stop.
    Thanks again for your comments.
    Exactly. I use Bb when I play 'Walls of Time' in G. So Eb would work well for key of C.
    Phil

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