No Power Tool Mandolin

[Jim Garber]

Yamaha Bamboo Guitar

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

All this time, I've heard that laminate instruments sound worse, but why is it bookmatching doesn't affect sound? Is it because side by side is OK, vs. layered on top? That would make sense to me considering the movement of sound waves. On a layered soundboard, the waves would have to penetrate multiple layers of wood along with glue, while side by side, it's just penetrating one solid layer of wood, but in multiple places. ???

[Dale Ludewig]

Sounding worse or better is completely subjective. But it does seem that most humans prefer the sound wood transfers to the air we hear as opposed to most glues and synthetics. On a bookmatched top and back, the ratio of glue to wood is of no consequence. The acoustics are the same. When you start laminating veneers together in layers with glue in between, you're veering away from wood into some composite which doesn't usually have the "warmth" of wood. I think a better way to think of the process of the top/back/system of a musical instrument- the sound waves aren't "penetrating" anything. They're exciting/ vibrating other things which in turn vibrate. What you hear from the instrument is the air being moved by this vibrating system. It's not like there's a lot of little sound elves bouncing around off of the walls. It's a system.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Sounding worse or better is completely subjective. But it does seem that most humans prefer the sound wood transfers to the air we hear as opposed to most glues and synthetics. On a bookmatched top and back, the ratio of glue to wood is of no consequence. The acoustics are the same. When you start laminating veneers together in layers with glue in between, you're veering away from wood into some composite which doesn't usually have the "warmth" of wood. I think a better way to think of the process of the top/back/system of a musical instrument- the sound waves aren't "penetrating" anything. They're exciting/ vibrating other things which in turn vibrate. What you hear from the instrument is the air being moved by this vibrating system. It's not like there's a lot of little sound elves bouncing around off of the walls. It's a system.

When I say penetrate, I mean the ability for it to transfer vibrations throughout the insides. That makes more sense, though. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Dale Ludewig]

Just a different use of terms. "The ability to transfer vibrations"- that's excellent. And it's important to understand it that way.
How's your hand?

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Just a different use of terms. "The ability to transfer vibrations"- that's excellent. And it's important to understand it that way.
How's your hand?

Much better, completely usable now. Thanks for asking. Next step is to make a plane.

[pops1]

I have had guitars, one a 1930, with a laminated back and sides, solid spruce top. It was a great sounding instrument. It would be interesting to make two instruments with the same top and solid and laminated sides and back. Possibly use the same top for a comparison in sound.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

I like the idea of the bamboo. I know bamboo is a grass, but acoustically, would it work like a hardwood or a softwood?

[Jim Garber]

Roger Borys, working with James D'Aquisto, developed a method of using laminated wood for jazz guitars. They are all electric but sound very good acoustically as well. I have played one and it was very nice and reasonably priced for a handmade archtop.

There is lamination and lamination.

I can't recall the maker but there is a high-end classical guitar maker who uses a specifically designed laminated top with some sort honey-comb construction.

Ah, I found it. It is called Nomex and is used by Hill Guitar Company and probably a bunch of others.

[HoGo]

Laminate back can be quite good. I've heard more than enough laminated back guitars that were better than all soild wood even from the same factory...
But for tops laminate changes game completely. Laminate top means there are two VERY thin spruce veneers on the outside and one thick veneer of cheaper wood (often poplar or basswood mahogany or some kind of common cheap veneer woods) oriented across. So the stiffness of the result is very different from solid wood (most noticable on soft woods, less os on hardwoods where crossgrain stiffness is higher and the lighter/softer wood center lamination will not affect it as much).
If you glue two pieces of wood edge to edge it will act just like one larger piece of wood as the stifnesses in all three directions are unchanged. That's the difference between solid wood and plywood, only typical plywood ofen has more layers...
There are guitar makers who laminate backs and ribs out of two or more layers of wood oriented the same way. IMO, if in this case your joint is perfectly tight and no thick layer of glue is left inside (and assuming there is not much glue soaked into the wood), the result will again be very similar if not same as solid piece of wood.
On electric archtop jazz/blues guitars laminate top can be usefull as it is not as responsive to vibrations and helps reduce feedback of pickups.
One more note, I'm not sure about this but I read somewhere that the original Selmer - Maccaferi gypsy guitars were made with laminated back and sides... no one complained about their sound...

[John Kelly]

That is a really good summary, Adrian. Thanks for posting .

[Marty Jacobson]

One other thing about using laminations. It takes much more setup and equipment than using solid woods (10 times as much work to get set up). Not something you're going to do on a shoestring budget, it's more of a long-term production process.

Hey Ajay, have you considered making a cigar box mandolin? All you have to make is the neck (which admittedly is probably the hardest single part to make of any instrument), and I guarantee you there will be important things to learn as you go. It will eliminate a lot of the initial problems, and will let you get your feet wet so you can start enjoying an instrument you've built with much less time invested so you don't get frustrated building it all from scratch.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

One other thing about using laminations. It takes much more setup and equipment than using solid woods (10 times as much work to get set up). Not something you're going to do on a shoestring budget, it's more of a long-term production process.

Hey Ajay, have you considered making a cigar box mandolin? All you have to make is the neck (which admittedly is probably the hardest single part to make of any instrument), and I guarantee you there will be important things to learn as you go. It will eliminate a lot of the initial problems, and will let you get your feet wet so you can start enjoying an instrument you've built with much less time invested so you don't get frustrated building it all from scratch.

I have thought about it, but it just doesn't feel like enough. I am happy to deal with frustrations, when it is something I care about. I have no problem dealing with them. Like I said before, I don't care if this takes 3 years, I just need to do it.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Got the plans, Adrian! Thank you so much! I'll definitely use these for my next build.

[Jim Garber]

Check out this guy making guitars from pallets. DEPALET- artisanal reclaimed wood guitars

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

I am slowly but surely flattening out the piece of poplar. It might go to waste if I do the cutting board idea, but there's no such thing as too much practice, right?

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

I'll try to post a picture if I remember to, but heads up, it looks absolutely atrocious at this point. It is hard to flatten wood from 1.75 inches to .15" with a hammer and some chisels. But I am definitely enjoying the ride.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Hey everybody, I am a little curious about what would happen if I made a small body mandolin (kinda like a piccolo mandolin), but wound mandocello strings on it. Would it sound good? Is it even reasonable?

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

I am in Physics 101 right now and we're learning about the physics of waves, and part of the unit is sound waves, and I think I can gauge the velocity and frequencies of waves well, so that might come in handy as well.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Also, I am done with my search for wood at this point, but I was a bit surprised when I went to Lowes, and I repeatedly tapped on different pieces of poplar and pine. And the poplar ringed like a bell, while the pine made a bit of a tone, but nothing near what the poplar achieved. Definitely a bit interesting...

[Walt]

Hey everybody, I am a little curious about what would happen if I made a small body mandolin (kinda like a piccolo mandolin), but wound mandocello strings on it. Would it sound good? Is it even reasonable?

Not sure this would work. What would the tuning be? This would be sort of like putting a set of cello strings on your violin. You couldn't tune it as a cello because the scale length is too short. You couldn't tune it as a violin because the string gauges are too large. I guess you could bring the strings to tension, see where they land, and construct a tuning around that. But I would guess that big 'cello strings on a tiny piccolo body would sound super, super, super thin.

[pelone]

Here in ranch country, when we encounter someone who is all talk and no action we say..."He is all hat and no cattle." The poster, in my humble opinion..is being rewarded for speculation with no action. It also reminds me of the "jam" rule of.."get up, sing, sit down."

[Timbofood]

Pelone, in Michigan it’s
“Big hat, no cattle” but the intent is the same.
Almost 300 posts and the fishing expedition continues.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Pelone, in Michigan it’s
“Big hat, no cattle” but the intent is the same.
Almost 300 posts and the fishing expedition continues.

Here in ranch country, when we encounter someone who is all talk and no action we say..."He is all hat and no cattle." The poster, in my humble opinion..is being rewarded for speculation with no action. It also reminds me of the "jam" rule of.."get up, sing, sit down."

I am working on my mandolin. I am literally chiseling away at a thick piece of wood for hours each weekend while my parents tell me to stop. I don't understand why you all are repeatedly saying I am not doing anything. If you don't think my questions are worthwhile, don't answer, just let other people who are willing to respond answer.

[Matt Harris]

Using chisels and a hammer to thickness wood is an enormous waste of time. Five bucks worth of tools at harbor freight would save you hours of time and loads of frustration. Honestly, you should know that at this point.