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Thread: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

  1. #51

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    No matter what Taylor's new V braced guitar sounds like Haters will hate it, and lovers will love it. The folks over at Acoustic Guitar Forum, Unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum and here at Mandolin Cafe have gone nuts over the whole idea that Taylor has once again made a major accomplishment and said so. The haters have already hated the new design and will poo poo it, and the lovers are eager to hear the new V brace. Nothing new.
    May those who love us, love us. And those who don't love us, May God turn their hearts;
    And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we will know them by their limping.

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  3. #52
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    So, mgap, are confirming the old saw
    “That which is old, is new again?”
    And I agree, there will be the nay sayers no matter what and there will be flag wavers.
    I’m not going to go out and snap one up so, it’s a moot point for me, I’ll keep my 1976 D-25M with custom inlay which really makes a difference in headstock appeal but, has had only a tiny bearing on tonal quality.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  5. #53

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I do know that in my youthful inexperience, I purchased a Yamaha classical guitar at a yard sale for $10. (back in the '70's) I had no use for a classical guitar, so I took the nylon strings off and restrung it with Martin medium steel strings. I bought it as a second guitar to learn open tunings on. Well, the steel strings transformed it into a monster of a guitar, sounding much better than my "good" guitar, and it sounded that way for a couple months until the bridge went flying across the room! I have often thought since, if a modified classical bracing pattern could be applied to a steel string, it could be very effective!

  6. #54

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    So, mgap, are confirming the old saw
    ďThat which is old, is new again?Ē
    And I agree, there will be the nay sayers no matter what and there will be flag wavers.
    Iím not going to go out and snap one up so, itís a moot point for me, Iíll keep my 1976 D-25M with custom inlay which really makes a difference in headstock appeal but, has had only a tiny bearing on tonal quality.
    Yes it is true, there is really nothing new. I would never give up a D-25M either, and would not give up my Taylor 814ce LTD or my Martin M-36. I may never get one of the new V braced Taylors either but I sure do want to try one(and I will have a open mind and ears)to see if I will fork out the $$$$$, I would do it if I think it sounds that much better.

    I do know that in my youthful inexperience, I purchased a Yamaha classical guitar at a yard sale for $10. (back in the '70's)
    I use to buy yard sale skis, complete sets for 25 bucks. The last pair of skis without bindings, no boots or poles $1,000.00 my how times have changed.
    May those who love us, love us. And those who don't love us, May God turn their hearts;
    And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we will know them by their limping.

  7. #55
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    ...I have often thought since, if a modified classical bracing pattern could be applied to a steel string, it could be very effective!
    So you're a "fan" of classical guitar bracing?

    Modest attempt at humor...
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  9. #56
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I would be worried about the notch around the perimeter. The square edges act as stress riser and any pressure from outside can open nasty crack inside the guitar (you know, some well meaning guy testing how much it flexes... and you hear the sund...) that will be impossible to glue and most likely it can go overlooked for long time till it causes bad buzzes or the guitar top falls apart...
    Using rounded bit would be a bit better choice but still I wouldn't sleep well.
    Adrian

  10. #57

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Does it still sound like a guitar??

  11. #58
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by violinvic View Post
    Does it still sound like a guitar??
    Yes, even more so.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  13. #59
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Have you heard one Mike? If yes please enlighten us
    Inquiring minds want to know...
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  14. #60
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I may be getting too old to have an inquiring mind, but am still interested in knowing. Does that count?
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  16. #61

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    Using rounded bit would be a bit better choice but still I wouldn't sleep well.
    All the versions I saw were done with a ball end mill...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    martinjacobson.com - Jacobson mandolins

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  18. #62
    Registered User Skunkwood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I'm just a player, but John and Joe both shared photos of other bracing systems they find to be similar, and I don't see that they are similar when you look at the details. The major difference I see in the Taylor V-system is that from the edge of the sound hole to the neck location there is no bracing at all, the cross braces all start at the bridge, and there are only longitudinal braces from the bridge to the edge of the sound hole. It seems to me that would make a difference in how much the upper bout moves relative to the stiffened lower bout. Maybe the notch on the lower bout compensates for that relative difference in stiffness?
    Steve Lavelle
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  20. #63
    Player, luthier, tech Andy Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Lindstrom View Post
    For those who care, I noticed in a video tour of the Taylor factory from a while back, a couple of years at least, that they were making the routed channel around the edge of the top plate
    Right - that part isn't new, I've seen that in many Taylors I've repaired. I can't remember if all of them feature it or if it's limited to certain models but it's been around a while.

  21. #64

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I worked at Dream Guitars for about four years. Every day I got to handle some of the finest guitars ever made from the most abstract innovative modern builders to the extreme high end collectors vintage instruments. Many had very dynamic ranges and interesting volume, tone, and qualities across the whole spectrum. At the end of the day when everyone else had gone home, I'd always be sitting alone in the corner with a beat up 1937 D18 or 0M....

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  23. #65
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I don't have anything negative to say about V-class bracing, if I ever get around to building another tenor guitar it might be fun trying it.
    However, I do have a question about the bridge plate. From the pictures I have seen it looks like there is a cut out in the middle? If so do the bridge pin holes get drilled just in front of it?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  24. #66

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    All the versions I saw were done with a ball end mill...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2018-02-12 12_24_20-TG-V-Class-Story-Page-Hero-1.jpg (1919◊650).png 
Views:	88 
Size:	257.6 KB 
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    I believe that Taylor has obtained a patent on this ball end milled slot. I was friends with Stuart Mossman back in the early 1970's when I was starting out in the guitar biz and he showed me some guitars with this feature that he was experimenting with. He also tried using the ball end mill to route slots in the sides of the braces so they were "I" beam shaped rather than scalloping the braces. Faster, less expensive and easier to produce... a Taylor hallmark production feature. Stuart didn't patent the idea, but Taylor certainly didn't "invent" it either. What I find most offensive about the V brace marketing campaign is that Andy/Taylor provide no collaborative empirical data to support their position that this is fundamentally "better". No data is offered to support that an X braced top vibrates in a chaotic manner and that is what causes intonation issues. Sitting at the beach and watching waves hit a jetty is not really empirical data. Saying it's your opinion that this is the reason for some perceived guitar defect is not data. Richard Schneider actually did holographic pictures of the vibrating top to determine how the top reacted to changes in the braces when they were working on the Gibson Mark guitars. The bracing on these guitars although a bit "busier" is remarkably similar to the Taylor V brace. Picture here:

    http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211.web....gton/body.html

    History has shown how great the Gibson Mark guitars were...

    I wonder if Taylor will be accepting back under warranty all of the hundreds of thousands of "faulty" guitars they have built over the years with X braces?

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  26. #67

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    Peripherally-related. Our local music store won't carry Taylor next year. They said every year the buy-in increases and they simply can't afford to carry their instruments any more.

    I wonder how this approach aligns with their innovation philosophy. Because with Guitar Center in huge debt, who else is going to sell Taylor instruments if they alienate the little guy?
    ---
    Cheap Craigslist Guitar | Mandolin Made of Wood | Upright Bass with Strings

  27. #68

    Default Re: Taylor V-class bracing - No direct mando content

    I played a V-braced 914 at Dusty Strings the other day and found it to be much more balanced and responsive than the others that I tried, including a standard-braced 14-series Taylor, Santa Cruz OM, Martin custom 12-fret 0-18, and a Larrivee (don't remember the model). I've owned a Taylor 422-R and a 324 12-string. I was impressed. Great workmanship too!

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