DPA 4099v with a volume boost/mute for live show

[Eric Charles]

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I did a search and wasn't able to find something I could understand.

Here's the situation: for live bluegrass shows, I am using a DPA 4099v clip-on mic on my mandolin, plugging it directly it to the mixer using a XLR.

I'd like put put some kind of box between the DPA 4099v and the mixer that would let me have button for volume boost (for solos) and another for mute (to tune). Seems like I would need to have phantom power in the chain for the DPA 4099v.

Has anyone had success doing this?

Am I able to plug the 4099v into a phantom power box (like this) then into a preamp (like this), then a XLR cable into the mixer?

Thanks in advance!

[almeriastrings]

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I did a search and wasn't able to find something I could understand.

Here's the situation: for live bluegrass shows, I am using a DPA 4099v clip-on mic on my mandolin, plugging it directly it to the mixer using a XLR.

I'd like put put some kind of box between the DPA 4099v and the mixer that would let me have button for volume boost (for solos) and another for mute (to tune). Seems like I would need to have phantom power in the chain for the DPA 4099v.

Has anyone had success doing this?

Am I able to plug the 4099v into a phantom power box (like this) then into a preamp (like this), then a XLR cable into the mixer?

No.

All kinds of balanced/unbalanced and impedance matching problems there.

You can do it with this....

https://www.eventideaudio.com/produc...oop/mixinglink

+ a suitable clean boost/volume pedal.

[Mark Seale]

Might be more than what you're looking for, but this would be ideal.

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/felix/felix.htm

[BrianWilliam]

Felix quote:

"Congrats on making a great box. I've been hoping for something of this caliber for years and years. It renders my pedal board of the last several years obsolete and useless. It's easy to use and sounds like I'd hoped. Bottom line - this is the best preamp I've ever used." - Bryan Sutton, six time winner of the IBMA's Guitarist of the Year.

[Tim Griffin]

It would be handy if something like the Red Eye had XLR input and passed phantom power through for the mic. I haven't seen anything other than the Felix.

[BrianWilliam]

Have you looked at the zoom a3?

[foldedpath]

It looks like there are more products out there now than when I was doing this, but FWIW here are the two ways I've done it with my DPA4099 mics:

Solution #1 - A battery powered mic pre with phantom power (Sound Devices MP-1), line out to a Peterson floor pedal tuner (for mute when tuning), then XLR out from the Peterson tuner pedal to the main PA mixer. I didn't need a boost pedal, but that could have been inserted in the chain. I mainly wanted access to that tuner pedal with mute.

The MP-1 is expensive, but it's a pro-grade field preamp, very clean, built like a tank, and a full 48v if I wanted to run something like an external KM-184 mic instead of the 4099. Another thing I really liked about that preamp was that it runs on AA batteries, very easy to swap out compared to fiddling with a 9v battery that many of these floor boxes use. Any battery-powered preamp that includes phantom power will have a heavy battery drain, so the AA's make sense as a convenient power source.

Solution #2 - Wireless. The DPA4099 works great on a wireless body pack, which gives you freedom of movement and a handy way to mute the signal if you use a clip-on tuner. Use with one of the receivers designed for a guitar floor pedal rig. Unfortunately this does tie you to AC power for the receiver with most setups, but I think this is really the ideal solution if you need tuners, boost pedals, etc. on the floor with the 4099.

[Mark Seale]

For just muting, this comes highly recommended as it's active and will not have the popping that passive units may create.

https://www.amazon.com/Whirlwind-Mic.../dp/B01DG1NMAY

[Dan Ready]

This is my homemade pedal board that I use for a DPA 4099 on mandolin and 2 guitars with various LR Baggs pickups. The ART is for 48V phantom power. Everything works great. Yes, I wish the preamp had the tuner and phantom power built in, but this works real well.

[Don Grieser]

I use a Zoom A3 with a Schertler pickup, but it does have phantom power. Setting it up is not the most intuitive thing, but once you get it going, it sounds really good. Really quiet too. That's a one box solution.

[Dan Ready]

I should add, I went with the Radial Tonebone because I can plug in 2 instruments each with their own switchable channel and separate volume controls.

[Mark Seale]

Dan - The EQ is shared though, correct?

[almeriastrings]

This all illustrates the one drawback with clip-on mics: if you perform in situations where you need to vary dynamics/volume a lot, you either have to develop a specific way of playing to accommodate this or you end up with extra 'clutter' and several hundred (or more) $$ in extra gear...

For some styles they are great - but if you have to play a lot of 'breaks' then life is more difficult.

I have both DPA4099 and ATM-350's, and I like how they sound, but for me, a static mic on a stand still works best (recently been using a Neumann KM-185, I am getting very good off-axis rejection with that, plus a nice working distance).....

[Charlieshafer]

To piggy back on what Almeria said, a stand alone mic gives great sound most anywhere that's not a loud bar. Many will use the clip on only to establish a base volume level where they're just in the mix evenly with the other instruments, and then have a stand mounted to step up to for solos. It doesn't help the tuning issue, but works better than any boost box I've heard anyone use.

[hucklebilly]

Have you looked at the zoom a3?

That's what I use with my clip on mic. Works great. Has phantom power, mute, and boost.

[pops1]

I have gone to a pickup, it sounds good, surprisingly good, and I can play lighter. There have been times for a bigger show I will have a stand mic for leads and let the pickup be the constant backup sound. I can step in for a volume change. The FireEye pre has a volume boost, I rarely use it, but it is just a click away if I need it. I set the pickup hot, so I don't have to play much harder to gain volume for a lead. I think it sounds better with a hot pickup and playing lightly than with the pickup down and playing harder. Arthritis makes it so I need to play softer and which is why I quit using a mic, it is much more physical using the mic.

[foldedpath]

To piggy back on what Almeria said, a stand alone mic gives great sound most anywhere that's not a loud bar. Many will use the clip on only to establish a base volume level where they're just in the mix evenly with the other instruments, and then have a stand mounted to step up to for solos. It doesn't help the tuning issue, but works better than any boost box I've heard anyone use.

If the clip-on mic is wireless, that arrangement with an external mic for solos will still work for tuning, at least with small clip-on tuners. You can just step away from the solo mic and mute the body pack transmitter.

And yes, that setup with the external mic is a smooth way to handle a boost for solos, without messing with floor pedals. It also has the benefit of drawing the audience's attention to the fact that you are playing a solo now!

[Dan Ready]

Yes, same tone settings on both channels

[Eric Charles]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. This has been a big learning curve for me. I am quite grateful to the experience of you guys and your willingness to share it.

I definitely agree with the comments about the usefulness of combining a clip-on mic (for basic volume) then playing into a stand-mounted mic for that additional burst. I also agree with almeriastrings comment that going down this road involves changing the method of playing or a lot of additional gear.

One thing I don't quite understand yet about the using the various boxes suggested is it seems at some point I'll need to convert the XLR to a 1/4" input to go into the various preamps. Looks like I can come out of those either with an XLR or run to a DI box to convert again. For those using the Zoom A3, the Tonebonz or other solutions, what's the best way to conver the XLR to the 1/4" needed to go into those preamps?

Thanks again!

[Don Grieser]

The Zoom A3 has an XLR mic input, phantom power, EQ, basic effects, tuner/mute footswitch, and boost footswitch. All in one, no extra adapters needed. Runs on batteries or plug it in to a power outlet. You'll have to use the manual to get it set up, but it works. It seems well-built with switches and knobs that feel solid. No buzzes, very quiet. Happy with mine.

[almeriastrings]

As Don says - use a box that actually has a good quality mic preamp already built in.

All of the various 'conversion' methods have drawbacks, either electronic or logistical. You are using a very good quality mic, and frankly, you don't want to degrade that. The Zoom A3 would do it, as would the Grace Designs (at a price).....

[almeriastrings]

Just a thought... but one method that can work well is to use your clip-on for 'regular' volume (as others have suggested above) and to use a good stand-mount mic for breaks (as also suggested) but... gate the stand mic quite hard. Fast attack, slow release with a pretty high threshold. Using hypercardiod condensers in this role, you can get good working distances provided you are really careful with any on-stage monitors (or especially with IEM's). Using a 'hard' gate and highly directional mic you will get very little unwanted bleed, and the impact on overall system gain before feedback will be minimal. If you want to try this, look for a used Peavey PVM 480 condenser on Ebay.... they are superb, and crop up at silly cheap prices. I have now A/B'd them extensively with a Neuman KM-185 and the 184, and while the 184/185 is undoubtedly better "on paper" and in the studio (self-noise is lower) in a live situation I'd pretty much defy anyone to tell them apart. Very close...so close I've now bought a bunch of them. One of my personal 'best mic' discoveries of the past year or so.

[dang]

Cool thread, anyone have experience with the “little sister” of the Felix, the AliX?

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/alix/alix.htm

[Charlieshafer]

-Peavey-PVM-480-condenser-mics"]Peavey PVM 480[/URL] condenser on Ebay.... they are superb, and crop up at silly cheap prices. I have now A/B'd them extensively with a Neuman KM-185 and the 184, and while the 184/185 is undoubtedly better "on paper" and in the studio (self-noise is lower) in a live situation I'd pretty much defy anyone to tell them apart. Very close...so close I've now bought a bunch of them. One of my personal 'best mic' discoveries of the past year or so.

Looking on ebay I see some old at 59 bucks, and lots of new at around $140. Are you talking about the new ones or the old? Love to try a couple, just want to make sure I'm getting the same thing!

[almeriastrings]

Charlie,

There is very little in it. The only thing that I can really find that changed was the casing. From light aluminium to light brass to a heavier brass on the more recent ones. I have some of each type, and sound-wise, they're very similar indeed. They also changed the paintwork... some are semi matt, some highly matt - but again, the performance appears identical.

They are a steal at either price, frankly....