Pac Rim instruments vs American made instruments ??

[ralph johansson]

Well, Martin introduced the HD-28 in 1976 or '77, and it was a big improvement in bracing design and sound over the D-28's that preceded it. Gibson started building F-5L's in 1978, changing direction from the generally disliked early-'70's models. Both companies, to some extent, "got the message" that they needed to step up their games, now that quality imports were becoming available.

Also, they couldn't help being aware of the widespread opinion that older Gibson and Martin acoustic instruments were clearly better-made and better-sounding than their current '70's products. When a 25-year old used instrument is selling at a premium over a new one, something's going on that bodes no good for the manufacturer.

Oddly, the HD28 was introduced the same year as the less than spectacular D-76. The M series, also with scalloped braces, was introduced in 1977, and the OM28 came a couple of years later. The M series was inspired by the retopping of archtop F guitars, and Eric Schoenberg played a decisive role in the reintroduction of the OM series.

Not sure, but I believe much of the credit for the HD28 belongs to Mike Longworth who was originally hired as an inlay expert for the reintroduced D45, in 1968. The plinky-plunky Japanese guitars of those days, Ibanez and Yamaha, posed no serious threat to Martin; I believe much more important was the competition from small shop builders, like John Gréven, who based their designs on vintage guitars.

[Ivan Kelsall]

''Takamine'' is still a Japanese based Co.,but i don't know if all their instruments are still built in Japan. Their elec. / acoustic guitars are very widely used by pro.musicians. I recently had my eye on this 'used' Parlour sized guitar on sale over here for £295 UK ($396 US),an amazing price for a guitar which seems superbly well made.

From Ralph above - "The plinky-plunky Japanese guitars of those days, Ibanez and Yamaha,.."
My very first guitar was a Japanese built Yamaha FG140 & there was nothing ''plinky plunky' about it'. In fact it was so good,that i've been looking for a 1960's FG140 for a few weeks now,that's how i came across the 'Takamine' in the pics..

A friend of mine who now lives in Ireland & who owns several Martin guitars,visited me a few years ago & played my Korean built 'Tanglewood' guitar. He told me that with heavier strings ( i used medium gauges on it),it would sound as good as his Martins - his opinion of course,

Ivan

[Caleb]

I think those "red label" Yamahas still have a pretty serious cult following. I've played Takamines over the years that were as nice as any guitar. There are some real gems out there if you're lucky enough to stumble across them. The trouble is, most of the great ones were bought and held on to, while the sub-par ones are mostly in circulation.

I've got a Takamine G-330 from the early 90s (made in Indonesia, all lam) that has always sounded and played wonderful. I always thought it was a great guitar till I started learning about guitars and realized it was nothing special. At the end of all that I wished I had just spent the time playing my guitar and not learning about specs, etc.

[mgap]

Just a few wandering thoughts before I have had enough coffee to think rationally.

Pac Rim instruments have their place here in the USA. Mine were relegated to campfire sing-alongs. I have owned two Eastmans a 514 and a now a non produced 804. I have sold them off, I am sure they are being used and then sold off as well, or maybe not?


I am more of a Nationalist than a Globalist.
That being said: I believe that one should save and purchase the best American made mandolin they can afford, then double that amount. You will never be unhappy with it. You may feel at times unworthy of it, but never unhappy with the quality of fit, finish and tone. It will be a instrument that you will enjoy playing for a very long time.

I have never understood the reasoning for sending your hard earned money out of the US. Buying Pac Rim instruments certainly does not help our economy, does not help the working force here. Those factory workers in those countries are low paid hard working folks that make less(I imagin) than fast food burger joint high school employees make here. I have never understood the rational for this. I bet the ex-employees of Northfield and Kentucky are just tickeled pink those instruments are made in China now.

Now after all the eye rollers of my rant have rolled their eyes I will stop and go play some music, and more than likely wish I had not pulled out my soap box but there it is.

[MikeEdgerton]

Kentucky mandolins were never made in the US. They were always imported. Northfield was a brand name that started out as an import if I'm not mistaken. Looking at this page I'm pretty certain they did.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think those "red label" Yamahas still have a pretty serious cult following....

I just determined that mine was made in 1967. I was working on and off filling in at a music store in Portland, Oregon in that period of time and I bought mine the day it came in the door. That might have been 1968. Now I'm interested in getting the pickguard glued back on. Maybe this weekend.

[Caleb]

I just determined that mine was made in 1967. I was working on and off filling in at a music store in Portland, Oregon in that period of time and I bought mine the day it came in the door. That might have been 1968. Now I'm interested in getting the pickguard glued back on. Maybe this weekend.

It's cool to have that kind of history with an instrument.

[allenhopkins]

Oddly, the HD28 was introduced the same year as the less than spectacular D-76...The plinky-plunky Japanese guitars of those days, Ibanez and Yamaha, posed no serious threat to Martin; I believe much more important was the competition from small shop builders, like John Gréven, who based their designs on vintage guitars.

The D-76, with its patriotic inlays, was a Bicentennial tribute instrument (hence the name). At least it outshone the red-white-and-blue Harmony instruments that came out at the same time.

Takamine guitars -- which at first were obviously Martin copies, down to the decals on their headstocks -- were far from "plinky-plunky.' i remember going to a long defunct Cambridge MA guitar store (no, not Sandy's Music) for a Jack Tottle mandolin workshop in the mid-1970's, and hearing the owner exulting that he'd gotten the Boston Takamine franchise, and was going to be selling a ton of these excellent, affordable guitars to college students. Guess that didn't work out for him, but he was right about the guitars; their "S-suffix" solid-top instruments were stone bargains for the price. (They made a D-18 clone called the "340" with a laminated top, "340S" with a solid top.) Another decent imported brand of the time was Madeira, imported by Guild; these were respectable guitars, and better than almost anything else in their price range.

I think the real competitive pressure on 1970's Martins came from 1940's Martins. Even 40 years ago, a scalloped-brace, herringbone binding D-28 was going for much more than a new one. Even the immediate post-war guitars were selling at a premium. When the HD-28 came out it was an immediate success; I bought the second one that showed up here in Rochester, and played it for decades before trading it in on my current 00-28G/00-42 "mongrel."

[almeriastrings]

It was in 1976 that I met with Don Reno, and he was playing a fabulous Alvarez D-45 copy! I had a 1971 Martin D-41 at the time and he suggested we swap for a tune ('Under the Double Eagle!'). His Alvarez sounded better than my Martin... and so did his rendition of 'Under the Double Eagle' - by a mile. What a phenomenal picker he was..every bit as awesome on flat-pick guitar as on banjo....super nice guy too, and very kind and patient to a youngish fan from across the ocean who will never forget him. Seem to recall he had an endorsement with Alvarez at that point, but he genuinely liked that guitar a lot. It sounded great over the big PA.

[Loubrava]

Just a few wandering thoughts before I have had enough coffee to think rationally.

Pac Rim instruments have their place here in the USA. Mine were relegated to campfire sing-alongs. I have owned two Eastmans a 514 and a now a non produced 804. I have sold them off, I am sure they are being used and then sold off as well, or maybe not?


I am more of a Nationalist than a Globalist.
That being said: I believe that one should save and purchase the best American made mandolin they can afford, then double that amount. You will never be unhappy with it. You may feel at times unworthy of it, but never unhappy with the quality of fit, finish and tone. It will be a instrument that you will enjoy playing for a very long time.

I have never understood the reasoning for sending your hard earned money out of the US. Buying Pac Rim instruments certainly does not help our economy, does not help the working force here. Those factory workers in those countries are low paid hard working folks that make less(I imagin) than fast food burger joint high school employees make here. I have never understood the rational for this. I bet the ex-employees of Northfield and Kentucky are just tickeled pink those instruments are made in China now.

Now after all the eye rollers of my rant have rolled their eyes I will stop and go play some music, and more than likely wish I had not pulled out my soap box but there it is.

Yes this is true & I’ve stayed away from posting as the OP question was mando vs mando and from what I’ve read here from everyone & agree with most of it but here’s but my thought is how can you compare the 2 when about the cheapest pac rim playable mando is around 300.00 & the better ones top out at 800-2k (Northfield excluded big outlier) and the cheapest USA mandos start around 2k and end up well over 8k I don’t see the comparison in 2 completely different markets. Like comparing a Ferrari to Honda Civic almost pointless. I started out on pac rim had 2 of them good playing and sounding. I now own a Weber and waiting on a Ratliff being built for me I will never buy another pac rim mandolin not because I think there no good I’m just don’t want one. People that haven’t played a pac rim probably want to compare but after you’ve played one you will realize there great. But comparing them to something that costs 10 to 20 times more dosnt make much sense.
Lou

[mgap]

Kentucky mandolins were never made in the US. They were always imported. Northfield was a brand name that started out as an import if I'm not mistaken. Looking at this page I'm pretty certain they did.

Well it looks like you are right, my bad.
I thought I would also interject that I am not saying they produce a low-quality product. After all, I have owned two Eastman mandolins and two Takemine law suit 12 string guitars, I own two Mexico guitars, i have purchased two Swedish cars, a Japanise car, three German cars. But I have purchased many more times American made products in my life time. This certainly holds true for stringed instruments. My advise is to save up your money and buy a mandolin made right here on our shores and you won't be disappointed.

[Sterling]

For those of you who are sceptical about Pacific Rim instruments, I have Yamaha(Japan) and Jupiter(Taiwan) trumpets that no American manufacturer comes close to making sonically. I own many American made brass instruments from 1830 to present day that play very well, but not at all like my Yamaha and Jupiter. To go a step further, are European instruments superior to American made? I have some German, English, and French trumpets that are also world class. I think that we are narrowing our musical palate if we subscribe to one’s own country of manufacturing to the exclusion of what the rest of the world has to offer.

[fatt-dad]

I bought my FG-180 in the early '70s. It's currently with my son in Brooklyn.

f-d

[jaycat]

It's cool to have that kind of history with an instrument.

If you like that, you'll love this one:

A few years back, my best friend told me he wanted to get back into playing guitar. He hadn't played for many years due to a wrist injury.

He told me, "I need to get an acoustic. The only one I have is "Susie's" (name changed to protect the innocent) old Yamaha." Well, Susie was my girlfriend from about 1969-1972. Turns out the guitar had been sitting in his closet for 40 years! She had traded it to him for a Kelty backpack, back in the day.

Once I learned he had it, of course I wanted it for sentimental reasons. Susie and I spent many happy hours playing guitar and piano and singing together... 45 years ago... Nowadays I have it strung up to an open E tuning for slide guitar, as it really needs a neck reset, but of course the cost isn't warranted.

It's an FG-150. I took into the Music Emporium when I got it, for them to look over. I told them, I heard some of these old Yamahas are worth some money. They said, "not this one!"

[Jeff Mando]

Great history, for sure, but the "devil" in me wants to ask, "what does your wife think about your pursuit of "Susie's" guitar?" -- but, of course, the "gentleman" in me is too polite to ask............

[pops1]

I had an Alvarez back in the day, an Alvarez Yari. The Yari was guaranteed for life and hand built. Different than my Martin D35 12 string, but a very nice guitar. Light as a feather and great sound. Still way different than the Guild. They all had their purpose with different string gauges and used for different parts of the night, finger picking or strumming, or my mood for which I was going to use for the next song.

[jaycat]

Great history, for sure, but the "devil" in me wants to ask, "what does your wife think about your pursuit of "Susie's" guitar?" -- but, of course, the "gentleman" in me is too polite to ask............

Haven't got a wife... been there, done that...

[Caleb]

I had an Alvarez back in the day, an Alvarez Yari. The Yari was guaranteed for life and hand built. Different than my Martin D35 12 string, but a very nice guitar. Light as a feather and great sound. Still way different than the Guild. They all had their purpose with different string gauges and used for different parts of the night, finger picking or strumming, or my mood for which I was going to use for the next song.

I always liked Yairi guitars. Very underrated.

[allenhopkins]

What I'm getting from this thread, is a general affection for the less-expensive, decently-made "Pac rim" or Asian-made instruments that many of us had as first or second guitars, mandolins, banjos etc. In my case not so much; I was fortunate to "inherit" a Gibson A-1 of 'teens vintage, that I had fixed up and learned to play on. Never owned an Asian-made mandolin until I bought my Eastman 615 mandola. My first guitars were Harmony, Chicago-made "cheapos," until I could afford a Gibson J-50; my first banjos American-made Kay and Harmony as well. Guess this dates my "pre-boomer" status.

Now I don't care where an instrument's made. I have instruments from Japan, China, Honduras, UK, Germany, South Africa, as well as from the US. They cover all vintages from 1860-70 to the present, and all price ranges from "I found this in my closet, would you like it?" to maybe $4K. Some are from famous makers, some are from "trade" level mass producers, some of unknown origins.

It's the individual design and quality that interests me, and what niche each instrument may fit in terms of sound, looks, vintage, history. Country of origin? Unimportant. It's now a world-wide marketplace, with different countries taking different segments of it, and we deal with it as it is -- or don't. I get my jeans, my electronics, my vehicles, my "fresh" produce, my entertainment, and my music from all over the world. It's the 21st century; love it or leave it, I guess...

[Sterling]

Drop the mike and walk away Allen. This thread is now done!

[Brian Harris]

So much research done on this topic with violins new vs. old. The conclusion: people can recognize a player in a double-blind scenario, but can't identify instruments.

Players couldn't ID either.

But that's only part of the equation and purely academic but interesting.

[bjewell]

I forgot about my "vintage" so-called Pc-Rim instruments. I have a '77 Yamaha SG2000, black and evil looking. This guitar has a HUGE story behind it but I won't bore you. Suffice to say that this guitar has smoked many a Les Paul in its day and a few Teles and Strats as well. Lowest action and most soulful sustain as well...

[Ivan Kelsall]

I have one of these - a Japanese built Tokai ''Breezysound'' Tele-alike. (silly name for an awesome guitar IMHO). I heard it at a Manchester UK guitar show,& it sounded so much ''better to me'' than my US built Fender ''American Standard'' Telecaster,that i swapped it - the only time i got 'cash back' as well as a guitar that i preferred,
Ivan
Mine's identical to this one.