Is There a Stable Tortoise Binding?

[jmkatcher]

I'm looking into having a custom blonde instrument built, and personally prefer tortoise-oid bindings for their looks. I seem to remember reading that this plastic is especially unstable and also outgasses heavily. Is there a modern substitute that's long-term stable? Alternatively, is there a wood binding that shares tortoise's visual quality?

[Michael Lewis]

John Greven offers Tor-tis binding. It has been available through LMII. This is a different type of plastic than celluloid. It gets brittle when cold and soft when hot, but should be chemically stabile.

SOME celluloid is quite stabile and has been serving well for more than 80 years. The problem is that you have no idea how the stuff will last when lyou use it. It may be from a great batch and last forever, or it might start crumbling in a few years.

[LouisianaGrey]

"Alternatively, is there a wood binding that shares tortoise's visual quality?"

How about snakewood?

www.gilmerwood.com/photo%20html/Snakewood_photo.htm

[jmkatcher]

That's really cool looking! I wonder if anyone has actually tried it as a binding. I know some woods lose their color with prolonged exposure to light, so I also wonder whether snakewood would retain that look long-term.

[Frank Ford]

Like-a this:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....nd.html

[LouisianaGrey]

Luthiers Mercantile and Allied Lutherie both sell it as binding material. Allied seem to be out of stock at the moment.

[Paul Hostetter]

I don't see the celluloid tortoise binding as being any less stable than ivoroid or any other celluloid nitrate binding. Sure is a lot of it around on instruments of various ages, right?

Snakewood does look really nice. A number of tropical hardwoods work well as bindings.

There is a great deal of celluloid acetate in tortoise flavor, it's used all the time for eyeglass and sunglass frames, but I don't ever see it offered for guitar binding material. I'm not sure why not. Celluloid acetate is "safety film" while celluloid nitrate is the earlier formulation that's quite a bit more volatile. But as allegedly troublesome as celluloid nitrate can be, I still don't see it going bad very much. Pickguards shrink, etc. but we all see it and learn to deal with it.

[jmkatcher]

It's a selective sample, though. The old stuff you see is the stuff that for some reason has lasted. I've read numerous anecdotes about perfect old pickguards or bindings that crumble to dust at a touch.

[Paul Hostetter]

I think Frank Ford could (and I hope will) tag in here too. Some of us are relying on 40-some years of continuous experience as repairers and makers with this tortoisoid stuff, and not reading about it at all. Direct experience trumps internet postings any day! Yes, celluloid nitrate can decay. The stuff at most risk seems to be large elevated pickguards, which do indeed rot. Binding material? Hardly at all.

[Darryl Wolfe]

One thing I notice is that the deterioration deal seems to be a function of certain time periods. #You hardly ever see a 20's anything with a deteriorated guard. #The bad period is late 30's early 40's.

Most of teens guards that deteriorate are very light in color, the darker ones seem to hold up. The 30's and 40's stuff at most risk is reddish with large holidays in it.

So I think it has alot to do with the suppliers and the product in hand at the time, not just cellulose nitrate in general.