Upgrade time?

[OneChordTrick]

I know the answer will be “upgrade” but I’d appreciate some objective advice.

I’ve got an Ozark mandolin like this https://www.gak.co.uk/en/ozark-2001-...iABEgLD7fD_BwE and Ive done a setup on it, added new strings but I’m disappointed with the tone.

Compared with my Octave played at the same pitch it sounds tinny and quite shrill.

Is it a case of a bad workman blaming his tool or would I be likely to notice an improvement with an upgrade?

Haven’t played any but I like the look of the Eastman 304, also considering the Ashbury E style or if I stretch my budget perhaps a Paul Hathway.

Or should I persevere and work on my technique?

[Mandoplumb]

I’m not familiar with ozark or Paul Hathaway, what iv3seen of asbury may not be an upgrade. I’m not a fan of taking baby steps when upgrading, it winds up costing so much generally. There may be inexpensive ways of improving your Ozark until. You can afford a real upgrade. Is there a mandolin player in your area that could look listen and give advice? It’s hard to tell with out the mandolin in hand and listening to tell why it sounds thin. Maybe different strings. If there is a jam or open mic that you could take the mandolin to hav3 a player look at it believe me most would be happy to give you a minute and advice. I have done so many times. Oh yea, if you must up grade now the Eastment is a decent instrument if you like the tone, my preference is The Loar or Kentucky. The thing is you don’t know enough to know what you want yet not being smart just stating facts, thats why I say stick with what you have now if it plays reasonably well and will tune. In time you will know what sound you want for what music you will play and you can make a giant step to a really good mandolin and not thrown a lot of money away up grading

[mandroid]

you did not spend much, so that is not surprising a 120 quid mandolin is not that resonant..

Know little about the British Mandolin market, other than the guy in Brighton
who posts here, sells the very best mandolins at the expected high costs,
gets them , I suppose, US ones from over in the states.. think thousands not hundreds


I got a Czech made Lebeda, They're good, long tradition in Violin Making
has Eastern Europe ... with the Skills

and their Forests the materials , (OK not Ebony that has to come from Africa)

look at the Builders link, above, for more names..










...

[Bill Cameron]

I always suggest making your way up the Eastman line to a number that starts with 5. Like f'rinstance 504. At that point you have something that you won't immediately want to start putting better hardware on... no doubt the 304 is a decent step up from your current ride but its true, part of a successful instrument upgrade tends to involve stepping a little out of your pricing comfort zone-- and the 500s are still pretty reasonable, even of they are a lot more than a hundred pounds.

[OneChordTrick]

I always suggest making your way up the Eastman line to a number that starts with 5. Like f'rinstance 504. At that point you have something that you won't immediately want to start putting better hardware on... no doubt the 304 is a decent step up from your current ride but its true, part of a successful instrument upgrade tends to involve stepping a little out of your pricing comfort zone-- and the 500s are still pretty reasonable, even of they are a lot more than a hundred pounds.

I may have misunderstood but I thought I read somewhere that the difference between the 3 and 5 series was the finish and fittings and that the woods were the same. Is that the case?

[almeriastrings]

'Ashbury' and 'Ozark' frequently originate in the self-same factory.... they are just 'names' that the respective importers (Hobgoblin and Stentor, in this case) have stuck on them...'Pilgrim' is another from the same sources, as are the Barnes & Mullins models, mostly either Romania (Hora) as per yours, or one of a couple of major producers in Asia.

Some of them are not bad... none are 'great'... and a common feature tends to be that they look very 'pretty' but lack volume, power and refinement (compared to a higher end instrument).

Both Eastman and Kentucky do much better in the all-important sound stakes.

[almeriastrings]

In the UK, I'd try to take a look at a Jimmy Moon instrument.. he's been building for years and they are very good value at not-extortionate prices:

https://www.promenademusic.co.uk/jim...ndard-mandolin

In a different league from the cheap imports.

[OneChordTrick]

Thanks, the Moon looks great but probably a bit above what I’m prepared to spend. I’m a self taught “bedroom” player with little aspiration to perform except for myself.

[almeriastrings]

If you are in no rush, keep an eye on the classifieds here and on Ebay UK. Stuff does come up and you'd be looking at saving 40-50% in many cases...

[Kalasinar]

I agree with previous replies that an Ashbury wouldn’t be a significant enough upgrade from the Ozark you currently own. I’ve noticed and held some Paul Hathway mandolins in Canterbury Hobgoblin but didn’t have time to sit down and try them out. They seem well built but personally I wasn’t that drawn to the aesthetics. On the whole though, as others have stated, an Eastman or Kentucky would be a good upgrade from what you have. Bill has a good point about the Eastman 300s and 500s - my upgrade from my beginner Tanglewood mandolin was an Eastman MD504 and I love it. I briefly considered the MD304 for a time but the better hardware on the MD504 convinced me to spend a little more. It was worth it for me, but to others it might not matter so much.

[Johnny60]

As others have previously said, Ozark, Ashbury, Blue Moon etc are all less than impressive. A decent Kentucky or Eastman will give you a significant improvement in tone and build quality. Whatever you buy, make sure that it's fully set up. Can't speak for all their stores, but some of the Hobgoblin stores do very little in the way of proper set-up. I used to own an Eastman 505 and it served me well for a number of years.

Trevor at TAMCO in Brighton stocks Eastman and, although I've personally never bought from him, he has a very good reputation for great customer service and set-up.

[Randi Gormley]

If you feel that your current mandolin sounds tinny and thin, then, yes, it's time for an upgrade. A 300 level Eastman is a perfectly fine upgrade from what you have. If you have the chance to try it out, so much the better. It has a thin modern neck, which I don't think has been mentioned. not sure of the size/width of the neck of your current instrument, but just thought I'd throw that out there. My Eastman is certainly a well-crafted and beautiful looking and sounding instrument for all it has non-upgraded hardware. fwiw

[OneChordTrick]

If you feel that your current mandolin sounds tinny and thin, then, yes, it's time for an upgrade. A 300 level Eastman is a perfectly fine upgrade from what you have. If you have the chance to try it out, so much the better. It has a thin modern neck, which I don't think has been mentioned. not sure of the size/width of the neck of your current instrument, but just thought I'd throw that out there. My Eastman is certainly a well-crafted and beautiful looking and sounding instrument for all it has non-upgraded hardware. fwiw

Thanks definitely plan to play a few before I buy, it might come down to my ability to get a decent sound out of any mandolin!

Regarding nut width mine is 30mm or about 2mm approx 1/12" wider, am I likely to notice much difference?

[Randi Gormley]

You'll probably find your fingers aren't exactly where you're used to them being for a bit -- it shouldn't be that much of a reset, though. My main mandolin has a 1-inch nut (considered too narrow for some people) and it takes me no time at all to adjust to the Eastman (which I use with a bridge pickup for when I'm plugged in) or vice versa. You should be good. The neck difference also may mean the profile of the neck within your hand will change. My Strad-o-Lin, f'rinstance, feels like a baseball bat where my Eastman is a sleeker, more oval-feeling neck. It's all good, just things you may not realize until you've played it for a bit and wonder why your hand feels different, or more tired, or less tired, and why chords are either suddenly easier or suddenly harder.

[Bill Cameron]

I may have misunderstood but I thought I read somewhere that the difference between the 3 and 5 series was the finish and fittings and that the woods were the same. Is that the case?

I would say from subjective observation, no, (particularly like the 500 series "classic" reddish top, not so hep on the sunburst) but what if it was? You want the better hardware, it makes a big difference both in sound and utility. You want the better finish, it looks great, sounds great, makes a more valuable instrument.

A friend/student bought a 404 when it first came out btw, immediately found a desire for better tuners. (She bought it before the price increased about $200 Cdn, it was a good buy at that price.) I'm not all that crazy on the materials, black top and mahogany body is the 404 standard. That is why I recommend going straight to the 500s (although they have the same tuners as 404, both better than the 304's.) Also as a matter of supply and demand, I dont know if this is so true in terms of UK availability, but there is a good supply of used 500-series because they were originally the lowest number in the Eastman line, the 300s were introduced a few years later--as a cheaper alternative, obviously. So we see used 500s going at very reasonable prices, while people are asking imho unreasonably high numbers for used 300s (maybe because they have put a lot of $ into upgrades).

[derbex]

FWIW I have a Hathway mandolin, it's old now but sounds great, you see them come up for £300 - £350 on ebay every now and then. I sometimes think of upgrading it but it would be for the cosmetics not the tone. I would try a few mandolins to see if you can find one you like the sound of, if you are in London at all Hobgoblin usually have some Hathways, plus various others.

[OneChordTrick]

FWIW I have a Hathway mandolin, it's old now but sounds great, you see them come up for £300 - £350 on ebay every now and then. I sometimes think of upgrading it but it would be for the cosmetics not the tone. I would try a few mandolins to see if you can find one you like the sound of, if you are in London at all Hobgoblin usually have some Hathways, plus various others.

That’s the plan plus the guys just down the road (whose name I forget but I’ve been on the road since 3am) who appear to Stott Eastman.

[OneChordTrick]

A quick update, managed to play a few instruments this afternoon. Of those that I liked the best:

Eastman 504, felt right immediately but realistic my budget will only stretch to a 304. Is the sound of the 504 that much better?

A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I don’t like but had a great tone once I ignored the “extra” string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced?

It’s a personal decision I know but what would you do?

[pheffernan]

A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I don’t like but had a great tone once I ignored the “extra” string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced? It’s a personal decision I know but what would you do?

Which model was it? Perhaps you could use Paul's price list to determine fair depreciation and make an offer: http://www.paulhathway.com/mandolins/

[OneChordTrick]

Thanks, the closest model retails at £595, this one is in Good but not perfect condition, just a couple of dings but not enough to dissuade me.

[pheffernan]

Thanks, the closest model retails at £595, this one is in Good but not perfect condition, just a couple of dings but not enough to dissuade me.

I generally look for a depreciated price that correlates to 70% of replacement cost, so maybe an offer of £415 would be acceptable on both sides.

[colorado_al]

A quick update, managed to play a few instruments this afternoon. Of those that I liked the best:

Eastman 504, felt right immediately but realistic my budget will only stretch to a 304. Is the sound of the 504 that much better?

A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I don’t like but had a great tone once I ignored the “extra” string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced?

It’s a personal decision I know but what would you do?

I think the sound of the Eastman 300 series is quite good, especially for the price. The one thing I don't love about the Eastman 300 series are the tuners. They are the "economy" model and are not as good as I'd like.

[allenhopkins]

Main differences that I've seen among the different levels of Eastman, have been [a] less figured wood in the "300" series than in the higher series, [b] satin finish on the "300's," rather than the gloss finish on the higher models, and a uniform brown stain rather than sunburst, [c] as mentioned above, "economy" hardware, tuners and tailpiece, which I find fully functional but not as nice.

Among the Eastman instruments I've played, which have ranged from "300's" to "800's," I've not heard a major difference in sound. But of course my individual experiences constitute a small comparative sampling.

You're doing the right thing, making hands-on comparisons. The one caution I'd suggest, is to stick to playing instruments you can realistically afford to purchase. Doesn't do a lot of good to play top-line instruments, if you end up dissatisfied with the ones you can actually buy; like test driving a Jaguar on a Morris budget. The Hathaway, Eastman and Moon instruments you may be considering all appear to be a cut above the Ozark, Ashbury, etc. mandolins that are widely available.

Get the best one you can afford -- and "best" is purely subjective: the one you like best.

[OneChordTrick]

Thanks Allen, my rationale behind trying the 504 was twofold: the Eastman Gas a thinner, radiused fretboard whereas the others have a wider flat fretboard and it gave me a chance to do a more direct comparison of f vs. oval hole. To that end it achieved my aim, I kicked the feel of the instrument and it confirmed my preference for an oval hole. The f holes that I’d played before were from different brands.

Plus the store was the only Eastman dealer that I can reasonably get too!

[derbex]

I had a quick look on ebay a Hathway mandolin went for around £400 recently.