Octofone Questions

[OctophoneOwner]

I recently got my mother's Octofone (which my father played regularly when I was a kid). I have taken it to a shop to get it tuned up and restrung. According to the instruction book that came with the Octofone, the tuning is A D F# B (the A and D in octaves). But when I google on Octofone tuning I don't even find that tuning mentioned. The book does not mention alternative tunings.

I have the original string box and string envelopes (and some of the strings) but they do not give the gauge of the wires. Does anyone know what they were? My father was using nylon guitar strings and he had it tuned as the first 4 strings of a guitar.

The Octofone has the original case and the instruments top is not the plain wood I see in many photos or on the Instruction book. I guess it is called a "sunburst". I see that that production date begins with 1928, but does anyone know how long Octofones were made? My mother was about 12 when she got it which would have been late 1930s. The Instruction Book (Self Instruction for the Regal Octofone by Charles Buchanan) was published in 1929.

[bingoccc]

I understand that the Octophone name refers to the idea of it being a bit of a chameleon. The idea is that the player can tune it the same as anyone of eight different instruments and then play it like that. They are supposed to be rather light built things so I would try it with very light strings.

[allenhopkins]

I string my Octofone as an octave mandolin, GDAE with the G an D courses in octaves. The "Octo" in "Octofone" was supposed to indicate that it could be tuned like eight different instruments, as bingoccc says: here's a quote from the Wikipedia article:

The name "Octophone" came from the idea that the instrument could take on the "tone combinations" of eight instruments, the tenor guitar, tenor banjo, ukulele, taro patch, tiple, mandolin, mandola and mandocello. Changing from one instrument to another was a matter of changing the tuning. The instrument came with an instruction book that told owners "how to use, how to tune and how to play" the instrument.

Now, this is obviously hype: the string gauge variances that would have to be incorporated to tune the same instrument as a mandolin and a mandocello, are totally unrealistic. And as bingoccc points out -- and as I found out -- the Octofone is one of the most lightly built instruments I've ever owned; one needs to be careful in stringing and tuning it. The suggested tuning you found is an octave-lower variant of a common ukulele tuning, one step higher than the common GCEA uke tuning, whether it's "re-entrant" (high G string) tuning or not.

If your instrument has a sunburst finish and perhaps some binding around the top, it's probably a more "deluxe" model. Seems clear that Regal started selling them around 1928, but I can't find a source for when they discontinued making them. Pretty sure it was before WWII, sometime during the Depression I'd guess.

Enjoy yours; I've had a lot of fun with mine. I did spend fairly significant buxx to get a carbon fiber reinforcing bar installed in the neck, under a new ebony fingerboard. My neck warped even with low string tension. It's a fragile creature, but capable of some good music.

[OctophoneOwner]

Thanks for the replies. I did read the Wikipedia article. My mother was taking guitar lessons as a girl - she called it "Hawaiian guitar" - it was played with a slide. There was some outfit that came around to a bunch of small towns teaching lessons. Her class had both other kids and some adults. She bought the Octofone from these same people and took lessons on it, but her family moved about the time she turned 14 which ended the lessons. So this would have been late 1930s.

I do have the Instruction book and could scan parts of it, if other Octofone owners don't have it.

I intend to play it. I can play guitar (a little). I did remember looking at the book when I was a kid and noticing the chords were different. I couldn't play the dreaded F chord on my guitar and was delighted to find that the F chord was different on the Octofone - then noticed the Octofone C chord was the same fingering (first 4 strings) as the guitar F - my hopes were dashed!

[bingoccc]

That is a most kind offer. I'd suggest that if you could actually scan the entire thing and up load it to the CBOM subforum with "Octophone Manual" in the title, you would preserve it for posterity for the thousands of folks who come to this forum. Old manuals of older instruments are rare jewels.

[Clef]

There are very few playable Octophones left out there. They were built as an inexpensive instrument and most of them didn't survive the test of time. I wish they were made as a high quality instrument instead of cheap. I believe they were made in the 1930's.

I used to have one and I played it for a few years. It had a really unique tone. If I ever find another one in playable condition I would buy it. Mine turned into a wall hang because of top sinkage so I sold it.

What's the condition of your? Can it handle string tension or does the top sink in? If yours is in good condition, play it!

Post some pics if you can. It would be cool seeing another one.

Here are pics of the Octophone I used to have.

[OctophoneOwner]

I can scan the instruction book. Much of it is songs (56 pages). I don't know what the CBOM subforum is.

The Octofone is in playable condition and it certainly could handle the nylon guitar strings that my late father had on it. There are some pick scratches on it and one ding under the strings on the lower part of the top. The guy at the shop said that would have no effect on playability. He is planning to lower the bridge some, but said the neck was pretty straight. He has some Regal instruments of the same vintage but had never seen an Octofone. There is one screw missing from a winder gear - hopefully he can find the correct size. Another gear has a non-stock screw in it. I didn't take photos before taking it to the shop, but will take some when I get it back. It looks like the images of Octofones with the sunburst on the front that I can find on Google.

Should I tell the repair guy anything about string gauges? I told him it was tuned A D F# B with the A and D in octaves. He has what appear to be the original steel strings in the case. They are quite thin, with royal blue fuzz on the bottom end.

[OctophoneOwner]

The Preface to the Octofone Instruction Book says:

"In appearance the "Octofone" suggests the romatic Lute of the Middle Ages. Its tone is unlike that of any other stringed instrument known and has been pronounced a charming and happy combination of Harp, Guitar and Mandolin. The arrangement of the strings and the tuning is like that of the lowly Ukelele which makes it possible to play the scales and reach all chords with little difficulty."

No reference to being tuned as 8 instruments. It seems more likely the "Octo" referred to the 8 strings.

The back of the book has comments from owners, one of which refers to tuning it as a Tenor Banjo.

[bingoccc]

All I can offer in return is this page from the Music Trade Review from January 28th 1928.

http://mtr.arcade-museum.com/MTR-1928-86-4/24/

An the thought that someone with a dial caliper could measure your original strings. New steel would be much stronger at the same diameter but at least you would know the gauge.

[OctophoneOwner]

Interesting. The "little booklet" that comes with the Octofone referred to in the January 1928 Review is obviously not the same as the Instruction Book I have. It has a 1929 copyright and at 56 pages is not little. The Preface says the Octofone was introduced "about two years ago".

[bingoccc]

I'm sorry. I forgot to add that the CBOM subforum is a forum a little lower on the menu than this one. It deals with instruments similar to mandolins but not mandolins.

56 Pages is far more than I imagined. To be honest, most forum members would not need the manual to learn how to play it. They would use it as a historical document, in the way I used the music review. Whatever effort you could afford would be very generous. Thank you.

[Clef]

I can scan the instruction book. Much of it is songs (56 pages). I don't know what the CBOM subforum is.

The Octofone is in playable condition and it certainly could handle the nylon guitar strings that my late father had on it. There are some pick scratches on it and one ding under the strings on the lower part of the top. The guy at the shop said that would have no effect on playability. He is planning to lower the bridge some, but said the neck was pretty straight. He has some Regal instruments of the same vintage but had never seen an Octofone. There is one screw missing from a winder gear - hopefully he can find the correct size. Another gear has a non-stock screw in it. I didn't take photos before taking it to the shop, but will take some when I get it back. It looks like the images of Octofones with the sunburst on the front that I can find on Google.

Should I tell the repair guy anything about string gauges? I told him it was tuned A D F# B with the A and D in octaves. He has what appear to be the original steel strings in the case. They are quite thin, with royal blue fuzz on the bottom end.

Before you have the bridge lowered, I'd suggest getting a set original gauge of steel strings put on it. Since you have a pack of steel strings in the case, you can measure the gauge of the strings. When I bought my Octophone, I had the rusty string gauges measured and the shop I was at and they set it with new strings for me to use. The strings are long and I believe they put a few banjo strings on it.

Or go with nylon strings.

I used to have all the steel string gauges written down, but I got rid of it when I sold my Octophone.

[OctophoneOwner]

I don't have the complete set of old strings. I believe there are 6 strings that appear original. I tried to measure with an old micrometer but it was not working correctly.

Where do you find very light strings? Before I lost the courage to restring it myself, I ordered some strings from Just Strings - 0.008 seemed to be the lightest steel string I found in their single strings, but I had no idea how to build a correct string set. There were so many options I had no clue what I needed.

[allenhopkins]

Here's how I have my Octofone strung:
1st Course .011/.011 unwound tuned to E unison
2nd Course .020/.020 unwound tuned to A unison
3rd Course .030 wound/.016 unwound tuned to D in octave
4th Course .045 wound/.018 unwound tuned to G in octave

I use individual steel guitar strings; the Octofone tailpiece will accommodate ball ends, with a little finagling.

Don't think you'd need to go as light as .008. Octofone scale is shorter than guitar, so you could be a bit heavier than "ultra-lights." Shorter strings will tune up to, say, E without the same string tension as longer strings.

Good luck. Be alert for signs of top sinkage or neck warpage. As I said above, I retrofitted mine with a carbon fiber bar reinforcing the neck, which also led to a new ebony fingerboard. (As a result, my "bargain" Octofone about doubled in price.)

But also, don't be timid. It's a fun instrument; go ahead and experiment with tunings and different (light) string gauges. I knew I wanted an octave mandolin, but you may be headed in another direction.

[pfox14]

This ad from 1928 seems to suggest that it was meant to be played "8 different ways", so someone who plays banjo, tenor guitar, mando-cello, etc. could double on it. I get the impression that they did not sell very well and went the way of the Gibson tenor lute (discontinued).

[OctophoneOwner]

Here's how I have my Octofone strung:
1st Course .011/.011 unwound tuned to E unison
2nd Course .020/.020 unwound tuned to A unison
3rd Course .030 wound/.016 unwound tuned to D in octave
4th Course .045 wound/.018 unwound tuned to G in octave

Would these same string gauges work if I use A D F# B (the A and D in octaves) tuning the instruction book shows? Or would it be something different?

[allenhopkins]

Would these same string gauges work if I use A D F# B (the A and D in octaves) tuning the instruction book shows? Or would it be something different?

It would be something different. My Octofone is in "fifths tuning" like most mandolin-family instruments, which means that the third course (Dd) is a fifth higher than the fourth course (Gg) -- both these courses are in octaves. The second course (AA) is a fifth higher than the lower string of the octaved third course, and the first course (EE) is a fifth higher than the second course.

The tuning you suggest is "fourths-and-a-third tuning," like the top four strings of a guitar, or like a ukulele.* The third course (Dd) is a fourth higher than the fourth course (Aa), the second course (F#F#) is a third higher than the lower string of the octaved third course, and the first course (BB) is a fourth higher than the second course.

You could get away with using the same strings I'm using on the third and fourth courses; the.045/.018 strings would surely take being tuned to Aa rather than Gg, as I have them. But the .020's would be too light, IMHO, for the second course; I have them tuned to AA, you want F#F#, which is significantly lower. Ditto for the first course -- my EE with .011's vs. your BB.

You can get unwound guitar strings around .024, and you might try those for your second course. The .020's I tune to AA in the second course, would tune to BB in your first course, or you could try something slightly lighter.

What you'd end up with is a sort of "octave ukulele" in ADF#B tuning, rather than the GCEA tuning most commonly used for ukes now. As I said above, I wanted to use the Octofone as an octave mandolin, which is why I chose the strings I did.

* I'm deliberately avoiding discussing the most common way of tuning a ukulele, "re-entrant tuning," where the D on the fourth string is actually the second highest pitch, just below the E on the first string -- the "my dog has fleas" tuning with which most are familiar. What you presumably want is a tuning where the first course is the highest pitch, and the lower-octave string in the fourth course is the lowest -- what the Octofone book is calling for. The fact that you're "octaving" the third and fourth courses (same thing I did) does add a bit of complication, but it's not "re-entrant tuning" on your Octofone.

[OctophoneOwner]

Thanks. I hope the guy at the shop can figure the strings out. I don't understand how to figure them out. I assume at for a particular length and gauge they can be tuned to a certain range of notes depending on the tension. However we don't want the tension to get too high on a somewhat fragile instrument.

Since I only know how to play guitar, and I see in the Instruction book that the chord shapes are the same, they just have different names, I think it would be easiest for me to tune it as the book says. The Mandolin chords are different.

Strange - when I asked my mother about the tuning she said "My Dog Has Fleas". That meant nothing to me.

I have scanned a few pages of the book, I will try to post them

[OctophoneOwner]

From Octofone Instruction Book

[bingoccc]

Thank you for the images.

This is the only other instruction manual I can find by Charles. I wonder if he chose that tuning for the Octophone booklet because he only played ukulele?

[walkerman]

Thank you for the images.

This is the only other instruction manual I can find by Charles. I wonder if he chose that tuning for the Octophone booklet because he only played ukulele?

I was over at the Larrivee shop in Oxnard. They are now making Octophones. Nice with rosewood b/s and Sitka tops. They are making them for a guy who owns the octophone moniker.

[allenhopkins]

I was over at the Larrivee shop in Oxnard. They are now making Octophones. Nice with rosewood b/s and Sitka tops. They are making them for a guy who owns the octophone moniker.

Website for Octofone Guitar Co. Seems to retain the design, but not the super-lightweight construction. Also a pin bridge rather than the floating bridge/tailpiece of the Regals. From the vid on the website, seems they're octave-stringing the lower two courses.

[David L]

I have my Octophone tuned as an octave mandolin, which fills the gap between my mandola and mandocello. The tone is a bit different than them.

[mandolinstew]

Thanks. I hope the guy at the shop can figure the strings out. I don't understand how to figure them out. I assume at for a particular length and gauge they can be tuned to a certain range of notes depending on the tension. However we don't want the tension to get too high on a somewhat fragile instrument.

Since I only know how to play guitar, and I see in the Instruction book that the chord shapes are the same, they just have different names, I think it would be easiest for me to tune it as the book says. The Mandolin chords are different.

Strange - when I asked my mother about the tuning she said "My Dog Has Fleas". That meant nothing to me.

I have scanned a few pages of the book, I will try to post them

Wow,I have not heard my dog has fleas tuning for about 50 years.It's:G C E A

[acousticphd]

For those middle-aged folks who had a ukulele instruction book as a kid, you will remember this (A D F# B) was the standard soprano uke tuning of the generation(s) past (as opposed to today's G C E A tuning). So it seems this Octophone songbook was considering the instrument as an octave ukulele.