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Thread: Giuseppe Vinaccia

  1. #1
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    I've just received the Giuseppe Vinaccia that I recently got from Ebay. It's a beautiful mandolin, with a perfectly straight neck, a sound and very attractive maple bowl with slight flame figure (a nice contrast to my rosewood bowls) and a low action, right on the spot for playability. I like the understated plainness of the decorations, which is nicely off-set by the quality of the wooden binding at the sides and around the soundhole. No painted-on "binding" or heat transfers here, as one sees with some Neapolitan or Catania builders. The top is clean with little or no finish and an even colour with a nicely-aged honeyed hue.

    Having said all this, this mandolin does have some structural issues and unlike my previous three Ebay bowlbacks, this one will need to see a luthier before it is playable. There is a fairly substantial split in the soundboard between tailpiece and bridge, and a second smaller one parallel to it. These weren't visible in the Ebay photos, as they are directly underneath the e- and a- strings, but are pretty obvious in the flesh. They're along the grain, so they might not be too serious structurally, but I'd rather have them closed. Probably more seriously, the edge of the soundboard has come away from the bowl and the binding on the bass side over a length of about 15cm and there is about a 1mm gap and some give in the soundboard when pressed. This clearly needs to be reglued, if the seam can be closed somehow (which I'm not sure about at the moment). The photo below shows the problem, although because a gap looks much like a dark binding strip, it's not nearly as prominent on the photo as it is to the eye.

    The bridge also needs some work. It was on the mandolin the wrong way around, with the string spacers facing the soundhole. Bizarrely, a previous owner had nailed the bridge to the soundboard. Luckily, I was able to gently pull the bridge together with the nails out by hand without damage to bridge or soundboard. Most of the string spacers are broken off, and to compensate for that, a previous owner has put notches into the bone saddle insert (which should be smooth for this style of bridge). I expect I'll be able to replace the broken string spacers with a slice of ebony and then smoothen the saddle insert.

    As was obvious from the photos sent out by the seller by e-mail, the tuners are mismatched, with the treble tuners having the post below the gear and the bass tuners post above the gear. So, the tuners turn the opposite way on one side to what one would expect. However, the tuners all work smooth and seem good quality. The replacement seems to have been done a long time ago, as the two sets of tuner buttons, while slightly different from each other, are all real ivory rather than bakelite, celluloid or pearloid.

    No idea about tone yet, of course, although I did briefly pluck the old strings that were on. Even with the strings detuned for transport, it did sound rather intriguing and I can't wait to hear how it will sound with the top and bridge repaired and new Lenzners on.

    More later.

    Martin
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  2. #2
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Here are the splits in the soundboard between tailpiece and bridge. The two small holes at the bridge position are where the bridge was nailed on.

    Martin
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  3. #3
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    The splits in the soundboard are not too worrisome - they can be repaired. The Pul;ling away may have something to do with shrinkage of the pickguard - after all resto was done on my Vinaccia it had to go back, because the shrinking guard had contributed to splitting the mainbrace (Splice the mainbrace? With a tot of rum?).

    My Vinnie also had the braces poking thru the sides of the instrument. A hairy repair. Also the bridge was glued down(!).

    Hard to understand the abuse heaped on some of these instruments.

  4. #4

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    Let me be the first one to congratulate you on the arrival of your new/old baby. Good catch, Martin!

    And, you have company: when I got my current bass, the soundpost had been fastened to its place by means of a NAIL, driven straight through the top!

    Ultimately, after simple surgery, the bass was just fine, as will be your lovely Vinaccia. Incidentally, as the top is not deformed, I trust that the cracks in the bottom (as depicted in the images you attached) will be perfectly curable.

    Once again, congratulations!
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  5. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Martin:
    Congratulations to you on this acquisition.

    None of those repairs sound to me beyond the capabilities of a moderately competent luthier. Do you have one local to you who can handle this and can deal with the structural aspects of bowlbacks?

    Jim
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  6. #6
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jim, Bob and Victor. No bowlback luthiers locally, but our own Jon (onthefiddle) has kindly offered to have a look at it when I'm in his neck of the wood later this month. I'm not too concerned about the defects, but the repairs are not ones that I would attempt myself. I'm happy to do setup and such, but cracks I leave to the professionals.

    I've just posted some photos over in the picture forum. More to come once the repairs are done.

    Martin

  7. #7

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    Congrats, of course.

  8. #8
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    I dropped my Giuseppe Vinaccia off a week ago at the shop of Jon (onthefiddle) in Cambridgeshire. Had a very nice chat about bowlbacks and so on and I had a good look at his bowls. He's now started working on it and we have a much better idea of the extent of the problems. Quite a few hidden bits of trouble, such as a fingerboard (non-original, presumably) that has the fret positions all over the place and simply needs to be replaced to get decent intonation, and some sloppy original workmanship at the purfling (channel cut too deep) that comprimised the soundboard/bowl joint. Jon has sent me some photos of the internal bracing of the bowl, and I thought others here might be interested.

    Martin
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  9. #9
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    The old fretboard, by the way, was in several pieces to start with because some of the frets were deeper than the fretboard -- I wouldn't want people to think that Jon cut the fretboard in half when taking the top off. This next photo shows the bracing, and in particular the rather interestingly shaped tone bar with the greater bulk on the treble side, presumably to balance the tone.

    Martin



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  10. #10
    Registered User Alex Timmerman's Avatar
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    Hello MartinJonas,


    Very nice sharing these photos with us here!

    And you can be confident that nothing is wrong with the fretboard; often on Neapolitan mandolins made around the turn of the century (and especially on those manufactured by the Vinaccias and Antonio/Niccolo & Raffaele Calace, Fenga, Checcerini, Casella etc. etc. ) the thin rosewood fretboard is cut through by the frets. In a similar way as can be notiched when a Mother of pearl finger/fretboard is applied.


    Best,

    Alex

  11. #11
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments, Alex. I'm not too concerned about the fact that the frets cut right through the fretboard -- these fretboards are so thin that it's difficult not to cut through. I am, however, concerned about the fact that a lot of the frets are blatantly in the wrong position. Some of them are visibly not parallel and in a couple of places, the fret spacings actually increase rather than decrease towards the soundhole. So, I have asked Jon to make a new ebony fretboard with correct fret spacings. The current one is rosewood, but I prefer the look and feel of ebony and as I'm sceptical that the current one is original, I don't feel overly bound by what's on it.

    Martin

  12. #12

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    Hi everyone,

    Sorry to be so quiet lately! I spent several weeks visiting friends and attending a wedding in Canada. My timing turned out to be just about right for Martin to drop off the Vinaccia - the day after I got back. It was nice to meet Martin at last! He also brought his Ceccherini and Rinaldi for me to see - the Ceccherini is a particularly nicely made instrument.

    As Martin said, the fret positions on this Guiseppe Vinaccia's current fingerboard are visibly out, measuring fret spacings simply confirmed that most of the less obviously unconventional fret spacings are also out! I share Martin's scepticism as to the originality of this fretboard.

    Of course it was not necessary for me to cut the fingerboard in two - it has already been cut into about nineteen pieces (it's an eighteen fret fingerboard). I simply removed the ninth and tenth frets, then released the piece of rosewood between them.

    Jon



    Jonathan Springall
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  13. #13
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Seven weeks after I dropped the Giuseppe Vinaccia off with Jon, I was able to collect it again two days ago. He has done a great job with the repairs/restoration on a number of large and small issues that we agreed on after lengthy discussion:

    1) Repairing the top cracks in the lower bout and adjacent to the fingerboard. The two prominent cracks in the lower bout (as in the photo above in this thread) had clean edges, luckily, and are now for all practical purposes invisible.

    2) The separation at the edges of the soundboard was not just an open glue seam, as I had originally thought, but a crack along the line of the purfling channel a few millimetres in from the soundboard edge. Much of the rest of the purfling had an incipient weakening in the same location, so Jon used underedging along the weakened areas, and now they are structurally solid.

    3) We decided the existing fingerboard was a dead loss because of the erratic fret positioning. So, Jon made a completely new ebony fingerboard. The old fingerboard had round fret markers, but as we didn't know whether that one was original in the first place, we decided the instrument would look nice with the crescent/ellipse/elongated diamond markers that many Vinaccias have. Previously it had 18 frets, but the gap between 18th and the soundhole was big enough for a 19th fret.

    4) Previously, the instrument had mismatched tuners. They were of the right period, approximately, but were different in look and design from each other. Jon happened to have a matching set from about the right period that fitted the existing holes, so he swapped them out.

    5) New bone nut and new compensated bone saddle, repaired and refitted bridge, and setup with new Lenzners.

    Altogether a sterling job from Jon, and a rather larger effort (and financial outlay) than I had hoped for when I bid for the instrument (althogu roughly what I was expecting after first seeing it in the flesh).

    So how is it now? Because of the new fingerboard, nut and saddle, the playability and intonation is that of a good new instrument: just the right amount of neck relief, sounding cleanly and intonating accurately all the way to the 19th fret. With the string tension just having gone back on, the top and neck joint may need some settling, so Jon will do the final setup tweaks in a few months time. At the moment, the action is 2.5mm on G and 1.7mm on E (much the same as my Ceccherini), but that may be lowered by half a millimetre eventually.

    I'm reluctant to say much about the tone at this early stage: Lenzners need a few days to settle in anyway, and the instrument probably hasn't been played for a few decades. My Ceccherinis both developed dramatically over a period of months, and I expect the Vinaccia to do the same. What I can say is that it already has a complex, rich tone, with good balance across all courses. The volume is a bit more subdued than on my Ceccherini, and it can't match its soaring trebles on the tremolo (but then I've never heard another mandolin soaring like the Ceccherini). It is, however, punchier and meatier. Lots of promise of improvent there, and I hope and expect that it will come along nicely. In particular more prominent trebles would be nice. We'll see.

    By a weird coincidence, I took it along to an ensemble rehearsals yesterday and was told by one of the other mandolinists that he had an identical-looking Giuseppe Vinaccia maple bowl at home. He had picked it up a few years ago at a car boot sale for five Pounds and had no idea that these might be collectable or more desirable than, say, a de Meglio, Suzuki or Tonelli (all of which are in our ensemble as well). I understand his GV isn't in a good condition, but he'll bring it along next week, so I'll get a look and take some photos. Maybe I shouldn't have told him that these may be worth something...

    Here are some photos after restoration.

    Martin
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  14. #14
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    And the side, showing the new fingerboard and the action.

    Martin
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  15. #15
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    And the back, with the new matching tuners and the trademark Vinaccia MOP triangle.

    Martin
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  16. #16

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    Beautiful, Martin! And, great job, Jon!

    It is a sheer delight to see a quality instrument land in the hands of an appreciative owner, and restored by a skilled luthier.

    Thumbs up!

    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  17. #17

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    Very nice! Congrats to you, Martin, and kudos to Jon for such an absolutely beautiful job.

  18. #18

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    ...And please pardon my simultaneous-typing, near-perfect redundancy to Victor.

  19. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Ditto from me as well. I love the look of that maple bowl. I am also happy to hear that Jon did a sterling job and in record time. Too bad we are too far away.

    Jim
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  20. #20

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    It's not redundancy, Eugene; its telepathy!

    I absolutely LOVE that understated beauty...
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  21. #21

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    Thank you Martin, I'm glad that you are happy with your Vinaccia! And thank you to everyone else for your kind comments.
    For those who are interested, I took some photos while I was working on Martin's Vinaccia, with the intention of using them on my (currently rather bare) website. I'll let you know when I've put the page together.

    Jon
    Jonathan Springall
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  22. #22
    Registered User guitharsis's Avatar
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    Very nice! Congrats Martin and Jon.

    Doreen

  23. #23
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Jon:
    I, for one, am very interested in seeing those photos of the work in progress.

    Jim
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  24. #24

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    Ditto.

  25. #25
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    beautiful! congrats

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