Northfield Question.

[Roger Adams]

As I understand it, Norhfield Mandolins are assembled and finished in China, with tone woods supplied by Northfield. The completed instruments are then set up in Michigan.

Given the price difference between instruments assembled and finished in China using tone woods presumably obtained in china, are American sourced woods used in the Northfield superior to the Chinese sourced woods used in Eastman and Kentucky Mandolins? Indeed, a Northfield F5 MM is pretty close to the price of a Gibson F9 Retro, which I assume uses high quality American sourced tone woods.

I am NOT being critical of Northfield. I am asking because I don't know, and because I am interested in the Northfield. However, I would like to know what I am getting for the price difference - beyond a good set up!

Thanks!

PS: Currently playing an Eastman 515....

[Mandobar]

You can't compare Northfield's process, which is done totally by a handful of individuals, to the process of manufacturers who run factories overseas.


As for the tonewoods, Northfield is pretty selective about the materials they use on all their models.

[sblock]

As I understand it, Norhfield Mandolins are assembled and finished in China, with tone woods supplied by Northfield. The completed instruments are then set up in Michigan.

Given the price difference between instruments assembled and finished in China using tone woods presumably obtained in china, are American sourced woods used in the Northfield superior to the Chinese sourced woods used in Eastman and Kentucky Mandolins? Indeed, a Northfield F5 MM is pretty close to the price of a Gibson F9 Retro, which I assume uses high quality American sourced tone woods.

I am NOT being critical of Northfield. I am asking because I don't know, and because I am interested in the Northfield. However, I would like to know what I am getting for the price difference - beyond a good set up!

Thanks!

PS: Currently playing an Eastman 515....

There are several potentially unwarranted assumptions in your post. One presumption of yours is that Chinese manufacturers are exclusively using tonewoods from China. Some of them use tonewoods imported from Europe, the US, and other places. And a number of the other materials (ebony, shellac, abalone, etc.) used in mandolin manufacture are definitely imported into China. Another assumption is that the lower-priced Gibsons are made from "high quality American sourced tonewoods." Well, that might be true, or it might not be. It seems quite possible, and even likely, that Gibson selects the very best tonewoods from its stock for use in its higher-end instruments. The remaining tonewood is likely used for the lesser instruments, and it might still be "high quality" (whatever that really means!), but we cannot be sure about that. Finally, as others have already noted, it is not appropriate to compare large-scale factories producing thousands of instruments (Eastman, Kentucky, etc.) with small-scale manufacture involving just a handful of people (Northfield, Gibson Original Acoustics division).

Many people have written testimonials here on the MC for Northfield instruments. Unless you have a problem buying something from China, you should seriously consider it. And if you have a problem buying things from China, then purchasing issues go way beyond mandolins. Besides, you already own a Chinese-made instrument, so I assume you don't have a problem there!

[almeriastrings]

Certainly the materials used on the 900-and up series of Kentucky mandolins is very high quality and is normally North American in origin. Indeed, they describe it as 'Michigan maple' and it is either sitka or red spruce for the top.

KM-1000 back:



Northfield Big Mon back:




Tops are very nice too. They vary individually, of course, but I'd say materials-wise there is very little in it... all very good.

There are other differences, however, alluded to above. Design. Finish.

With Gibson you'll tend to get the 'fanciest looking' woods on their higher end mandolins, but this really is cosmetic. A plainer set can sound just as good, so in that sense the 'quality' is still there.

You have to look beyond where things are made and how fancy the woods are and more into how they are made and who makes them.. or even when they were made, and factor in some individual variability too. So it is not quite as easy you might think.

I have played some really bad Gibsons (not recent ones, I might add - these have been consistently excellent) and some very fine Northfield and Kentucky examples...

[FLATROCK HILL]

There are several potentially unwarranted assumptions in your post. One presumption of yours is that Chinese manufacturers are exclusively using tonewoods from China. Some of them use tonewoods imported from Europe, the US, and other places.

True. I don't know where Kentucky currently sources its wood, but as far back as the early '80s, their top models used wood from here in the U.S.A... Pacific Northwest and Michigan according to this Frets article. http://www.vintagemandolin.com/kentu...iclepage2.html

[Loubrava]

Not sure if it's correct but I heard Northfields and Kentuckys are made in the same shop & both currently use woods from just about everywhere except China if you believe there advertising. The OP mentioned a Retro F9 I think using Gibson as a benchmark is a problem only because when I was looking for that Gibson sound but didn't want to spend 5k a wise Luthier told me "if want a mandolin to sound like a Gibson go buy one" over simplified yeah but it made me stop & think. Both Northfield & Kentucky were on my radar, I ended up putting a deposit down with small shop in Nashville for an F5 I'll know in few months if it was right decision.
Lou

[Spruce]

Given the price difference between instruments assembled and finished in China using tone woods presumably obtained in china, are American sourced woods used in the Northfield superior to the Chinese sourced woods used in Eastman and Kentucky Mandolins?

Not necessarily...
Both Chinese maple and spruce can be as good as any tonewood on the planet...
...and it's a hellova lot cheaper to obtain in China than American or European woods...

[almeriastrings]

Not sure if it's correct but I heard Northfields and Kentuckys are made in the same shop

Categorically untrue.

Not a shred of fact in that rumour.

Totally different operations in scale, ownership and just about everything else.

[Br1ck]

When I went to The Mandolin Store, these were the issues I wanted to explore. Now I had played Northfields before and found them very good, but never side by side with the Master Kentuckys.

I started with the high side of Eastman and non Master Kentuckys. There is a richnesseld to the G string that is lacking in these mandolins. Move up to the Master series of Kentyckys and you are getting a pretty decent mandolin. Certainly the best bang for your buck I've tried. (In new instruments). Add around a grand and you can buy a Northfield F5S. The law of deminishing returns kicks in, but that incremental difference would haunt me every day if I bought the Kentucky. Really The Northfield was quite plain, in that you get little in the way of pretty wood compared to the nicer Kentuckys, but the money is in the sound and what I'd buy.

Then a Gibson F 9 was placeed in my hands and what you get is even plainer for another $1000, but man, if you want the Gibson signature chop, you won't be finding it in a Northfield.

So, IMHO, you get most of what you'd want in a Northfield, but beware if picking up a Big Mon. Geez, things get expensive quickly. Pretty wood is nice, but doesn't necessarily translate into a better sound, but that Big Mon was both. I usually won't pick up that which I have no intention of buying. I have a self imposed ceiling which the Big Mon exceeds.

[sblock]

When I went to The Mandolin Store, these were the issues I wanted to explore. Now I had played Northfields before and found them very good, but never side by side with the Master Kentuckys.

I started with the high side of Eastman and non Master Kentuckys. There is a richnesseld to the G string that is lacking in these mandolins. Move up to the Master series of Kentyckys and you are getting a pretty decent mandolin. Certainly the best bang for your buck I've tried. (In new instruments). Add around a grand and you can buy a Northfield F5S. The law of deminishing returns kicks in, but that incremental difference would haunt me every day if I bought the Kentucky. Really The Northfield was quite plain, in that you get little in the way of pretty wood compared to the nicer Kentuckys, but the money is in the sound and what I'd buy.

Then a Gibson F 9 was placeed in my hands and what you get is even plainer for another $1000, but man, if you want the Gibson signature chop, you won't be finding it in a Northfield.

So, IMHO, you get most of what you'd want in a Northfield, but beware if picking up a Big Mon. Geez, things get expensive quickly. Pretty wood is nice, but doesn't necessarily translate into a better sound, but that Big Mon was both. I usually won't pick up that which I have no intention of buying. I have a self imposed ceiling which the Big Mon exceeds.

Interesting to get your take on it all. I agree that the basic Northfield offers something not (yet) found in Kentucky or Eastman -- even at their top end. In a choice between a Gibson F9 and a high-end Northfield, I would still opt for the Northfield, myself, but the price would be higher, admittedly. And yes, prettier wood does not translate to prettier sound, that's for certain. It's easy to get swept up by all the eye candy, though, and when you spend that much on an instrument, you really want it to look good as well as sound good. But hard choices must be made, and these should favor sound over looks. I predict, however, that your self-imposed ceiling might well crack someday! But maybe not today? I suppose I should admire your discipline. But that Big Mon seems to be calling your name! Ah, the siren call...

[dwc]

Not sure if it's correct but I heard Northfields and Kentuckys are made in the same shop & both currently use woods from just about everywhere except China if you believe there advertising...
Lou

Absolutely not true. Even the high end Kentucky mandolins are built in a factory. Northfield mandolins are made from US sourced woods in a very small shop in China. Their shop in China isn't much bigger than Ellis and probably smaller than Collings. At most, 4 people were responsible for building my Northfield.

I have written at length about my Northfield in other threads. I won't restate my comments here except to say that my Northfield is superior to every Kentucky and every Eastman that I have played. It is also a better sounding mandolin than many (but not all) Gibsons I have played.

[Mandobar]

Kentucky mandolins are built in the Saga shop, or at least they were. The only connection between Northfield and Kentucky is that I believe that Adrian (who runs Northfield) worked for Saga over in China way back when.

I do a lot of outdoor gigs with my Northfields. My F5S has developed a huge voice, although it had one to begin with. You'd be hard pressed to find a nicer mandolin in their price point. I enjoyed playing the octave too that was at TME. As for Collings, I don't think that there are more than a handful of folks working in the mandolin shop there. While a lot of the rough out work is done via CNC at Collings whoever is voicing the mandolins now has a lot of talent. The last few have I have played, have been knock your socks off good.

[billykatzz]

Just throwing in my 2 cents to the discussion. I've talked to several reps from Eastman, and they mentioned their yearly output of hand-carved mandolins can be counted in the hundreds, not thousands. Not to say their production is on a small-scale like Northfield, but certainly much less output than Kentucky or Loars.

I haven't had to opportunity to play a Northfield yet (maybe I shouldn't; I might get "the itch"), but I do own a very sweet sounding and playing MD815V. I also have a Collings MT and MTO. All very nice instruments, each with it's own sound.

[Br1ck]

I have a great admiration for the Northfield F 5S. The pinstripe around the headstock is very classy and the fit and finish scream quality. It's the kind of impression you get picking up an MT. So plain yet so classy.

[Johnny60]

Love my F5S.

[Roger Adams]

Thanks to all who responded to my question on this thread! You have all provided me with great feedback and insight. My Eastman 515 is an excellent value for the dollar and I am truly enjoying it. I am amazed at the quality of the build for under $1000. However, I am intrigued by the Northfield, and plan to take a little trip to TMS and do some serious comparisons. Thanks again!

[jimmy powells]

Once you play something which sounds so much better, it will bug you every day so if you can't or don't want to spend a good bit more then be prepared. When you get that extra sound, you always go for it, one way or another.

I wouldn't have believed I'd pay £3750 for a USED mandolin but my Northfield BigMon F5 just can't be beaten by anything. I may have been lucky to get what I believe to be the best mandolin that has come out of their workshop but it gives me enormous pleasure and is an appreciating asset so I'm getting the pleasure free of charge. I take great care with it and plan to continue to do that. It has TONE, Volume and thanks to a great set up, the intonation is 100% Perfect. For me, that is very high on the list. I did set up myself but bridge was sitting so straight and tight on the top that my job was made easy. I love it every day.

[Rich Benson]

What leads you to believe it is an “appreciating asset.”

[Mandobar]

These days I’m not sure there is such a thing.

[Em Tee]

Northfield has a wealth of information about their processes and their history on their website. The only mandolin they make that is 100% made in China is the Big Mon (arguably the best sounding mandolin they make). From my understanding, their A styles are made entirely in Michigan. Some F styles are assembled in China and finished in Michigan. Their website is worth the view, after reading their story I'm a Northfield convert for sure. My next mandolin (and hopefully last) will be a Big Mon.

[darylcrisp]

Every Northfield I've had hands on with, operate with the smoothest adjustments(Truss rod, tuners, bridge) vs any other brand mandolin-other than my current 20H Weber Yellowstone(2017).
The setups on the Northfields are simply excellent. The tuners, all of them, work effortlessly with no feel of loading up and no play. I've never seen that on any other make Mandolin that I've owned or worked on. The tone is always pleasing, build quality is top tier as well.
I personally feel in the early years the wood on the back/sides were more plain in visual appearance than what I've been seeing the past 2 years-that may just be me and the limited amount that I've seen.
I've owned a couple Collings, Webers, Northfields, and one Pava and one Gibson custom F9. The NF and Pava have excellent setups and playability(and tone if that particular maker suits you). For me, that's worth a lot of $ to have that out of the box.
Northfields are hard to beat, if you like the sound.

[almeriastrings]

I personally feel in the early years the wood on the back/sides were more plain in visual appearance than what I've been seeing the past 2 years-that may just be me and the limited amount that I've seen.

??



One of the very earliest examples.

[dang]

??

One of the very earliest examples.

Plainly awesome!

[Br1ck]

I've seen some F5S mandolins with very plain backs, and some with a good amount of flame. All else equal, I'll take flame, thank you. But they all sound great, and that particular model has a price niche all its own.

The Big Mons I've played have all been beautiful. Northfield seems to be building upper end mandolin models lately, where the price advantage is not as great.

[darylcrisp]

almeriastrings,
my post alluded to the base F5S, I should have been more specific. the top tier models, as they started to be made and offered for sale, have always had high flame backs/necks.

in the startup years the F5S was the only model I think they offered for a period of time. my memory of it was very plain looking, satin finish, small frets,flat fretboards I think I even remember there was no top binding-I could be wrong on some of this as I'm going from memory. as time moved on the base F5S became more pleasing from a visual aspect. and if my memory is correct, I think elderly was the first shop to offer NF for sale-I assume due to Adrian Bagale having worked there before he started NF, and having a repoire with stan.