Used instruments

[Mement0o]

Hi everyone

I'm a beginner player who owns an Aria AM-20E and I'm willing to upgrade it. I would like to take classes so that would be a motivation

I have saved money and now Im looking for the best instrument for less money as a lot of people do. So I thought about used instruments.
The thing is I live in Paris and I realized that it is not the best place to find a large range of mandolins. I've found only one shop seriously sending mandolins.

Anyway Im looking at mandos on online french fleamarkets and I have find a few of them. But before travelling the entire country with my student pocket money (it's all about money and love in the music world right?) just to test it I thought of asking you.

I found this one:

• Hofner HMA-5M (750 euros)

The owner says he bought it for 1200.

http://www.mandoharp.com/Mandolins/index.html

That must be true.

I see the bargain here but is it a good mando anyway?
I haven't find many informations about it.

• Eastman MD505L (650 euros)

https://themandolinstore.com/product...left-handed-2/

It's for left-handed but I know someone who could change it into a righty for free. Is it a good idea? Will it affect the sound of the instrument?

I have also found mandos without brands given by the owner but I found them interesting by their price and their look.

• Bowl Mandolin (50 euros)

It looks like a Gelas but is it?

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/l...20_540x360.jpg

• Pre-amplified (250 euros)
  
  revised by a professional

• Triple Soundhole (110 euros)
  
  played by a musician

• Flat back (75 euros)
  
  revised by a professional

I could buy some of the cheaper ones and have a larger range of types of mandos to discover OR buy one known to be a reliable instrument.

Thanks for helping making a choice

[nickster60]

The Mandolin Store is pretty well regarded around here. The Eastman 305 is very popular. There are also some good stores in England.

[Ray(T)]

Probably out of your price range but you might like to look here - http://www.rfcharle.com/HTML/ListeA.html

[pheffernan]

My advice would be to look on that side of the Atlantic so that your budget isn't consumed by shipping and import fees. One resource would be the Classifieds here at the Mandolin Cafe. You can do Advanced Searches by currency (like "€") or location (like "France") to try to find mandolins near you. In your budget range, I kind of like the looks of this one if it's still available:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/111348#111348

There you will also find ads from shops like The Acoustuc Music Company in England:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/115240#115240

As well as Moloney Music in Ireland:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/114789#114789

Both should have options in your price range. Good luck in your search!

[multidon]

You are correct that there is not much out there about the Hofner. They are traditionallly German made instruments but in this case I am dubious. Could it be they are outsourcing to the Orient now like everyone else? Still, the pictures I see look nice, and at least one Web site I found says it is made of "all solid timbers", so it might be good. If it's all solid, and sounds and plays good, the price is fair.

The flat back for 75 looks very interesting. Nice Birdseye maple back. That one has "German" written all over it. Slotted headstock, marquetry binding, and other things about the overall design. If it could be set up right, it could be a good and inexpensive choice.

The bowlback looks extensively altered, and not in a good way. Top shows signs of caving. I would steer clear of it. Bowlbacks are only a good choice if you are primarily interested in classical music. And they are difficult to find without issues.

The triple hole has been altered of course. It didn't come from the factory like that. I would worry about top integrity on such an instrument. And the one with pickup built in looks like a Kay or or similar, maybe American but more likely from the Orient, and most likely laminated wood construction.

Switching a left handed mandolin to right handed would involve a new nut and new bridge saddle. It would have no affect on sound but it MUST be done by someone who knows what they're doing so you are sure it's being done correctly. That work would alter the set up and of course proper set up is critical.

Good luck.

[derbex]

What sort of music do you want to play? That might influence your choice of mandolin.

[Escaped Cellist]

Contrarian opinion here: sign up for the classes first, and tell your teacher you are looking for an upgrade instrument. A lot of the used instrument trade in student/intermediate-grade instruments goes through teachers and never hits eBay/Craigslist/flea markets/music stores/etc. Especially in the price range you are looking at, because many teachers will also have students at that price level who want to upgrade to the next level.

A good teacher can also help you find an instrument that is not only good, but good for you. We all have our strengths and weaknesses as beginners, and an instrument that really emphasizes your personal strengths and minimizes your weaknesses can be a more inspiring instrument to play, which encourages more practice and develops more skill.

I've even had teachers "rent" me one of their own instruments and apply all the monthly rent to the purchase when I decided to buy the instrument. Great way to seriously try an instrument out fully before you buy.

So sign up for those classes!

[Mandoplumb]

I am not familiar with an AM 20 E but if it is in the same league as Arias I have played it is a very decent mandolin probably as good as any of the examples you have given. MAS is terrible sometimes but you probably should play the crap out of the Aria and save your money until you can really upgrade. My opinion for what's it worth

[fatt-dad]

I'd look for a hand-carved, solid wood, a-model with f-holes. They are pretty versatile. If you desire sculpting the tone, you can always mess with strings, picks and technique.

I'd consider an Eastman.

f-d

p.s., to add: I've owned a few Arias. One a hand-carved, "Pro II" the other also marked, "Pro II," but it was nowhere near the same quality. I'm reluctant to recommend Aria, based on my experience. Then again, in hand I may notice if it's a proper mandolin or junk.

[Mement0o]

Thank you very much for your fast and useful answers! I have a much better idea of what I need.

[Mement0o]

What sort of music do you want to play? That might influence your choice of mandolin.

I am interested in classical and american folk music.

The Mandolin Store is pretty well regarded around here. The Eastman 305 is very popular. There are also some good stores in England.

I'm always afraid to buy an instrument without trying. But that might be interesting to take little risk on famous and reliable instrument.

I'm reluctant to recommend Aria, based on my experience. Then again, in hand I may notice if it's a proper mandolin or junk.

The one I have has been set up and refreted so it sounded fine, I mean in tune (not the case when I got it) But the microphone is just ok and the way it is poorly attached inside the mandolin created lots of weird vibrations when playing acoustic now. And more important the nut has "exploded" because of the tension of the string after 2 years of playing it. I now have only one G and one E string... Might get it fixed but I prefer to use it for experimental amplified music, not much acoustic so I get along with it.

So nah, I would not recommend Aria neither. That's a lot of things to do after only 2 years of playing.

The flat back for 75 looks very interesting.

I think I'll go for this one. And I still have money

Bowlbacks are only a good choice if you are primarily interested in classical music. And they are difficult to find without issues.

Yes you're right. But I am interested in it and I made a really really good deal today. A bowl back mandolin from 2001 owned by a violin player, for 100 euros and a solid case. She bought it in a shop in Paris so I could go see them. And they told me the case is worth 150 up to 200 euros. So I have a mandolin for free!!! The mandolin was worth 560 euros when she bought it.

The triple hole has been altered of course.

How do you think it has been altered? In mean what parts?

Contrarian opinion here: sign up for the classes first, and tell your teacher you are looking for an upgrade instrument.

That is very right. But not working always working with fleamarkets and limited time problems or special occasions.

So sign up for those classes!

I will!!! I'm attending to a free art school this year, with music classes... that's the dream!

[colorado_al]

I'd check out this Tacoma M3 that is listed on CL
https://paris.craigslist.fr/msg/d/ta...?lang=en&cc=gb

Also here on the cafe classifieds
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/115194#115194

I have a Tacoma M2 that I quite like. They are certainly not traditional mandolins, but they are very easy to play and well made.
I don't think I'd pay 500 euro for it, but maybe 300 or so?

I'd also echo that Trevor at TAMCO is someone who you should contact.

Also, there are several fine mandolin builders in the Czech Republic that you should keep an eye out for. You could buy a Prucha hand made A5 for 1500 euro
http://en.pruchabanjos.cz/mandolin.php?mandolin=a5-t

Lebeda and Vana are also well regarded. I'm not seeing a website for Lebeda, but here is Vana:
http://www.vanamandolins.com/instruments.html

Also Capek
http://capekinstruments.com/mandolins.html

I don't know if any of those are in your price range

If you are looking for a flat-top or a used instrument, you might want to contact Dave Hynds who builds and repairs mandolins in SW France
http://www.mandolinluthier.com/index.htm

In Paris, It would be worth a visit to http://www.rfcharle.com/HTML/La_boutiqueangl.html to check some instruments out, but I think they are on the expensive side. Still, they may know where you could buy something more in your price range

Oh also Streichholz-Schachtel in Germany. I know they carry JBovier, which I think is one of the best value mandolins you can find. I don't know what their pricing is, but I would contact them and see what they have:
http://www.streichholz-schachtel.de/

And you could also check out Hobgoblin in UK. They are not the greatest store for setup of an instrument, but they do have a good selection of Kentucky mandolins
https://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sale...0-002&Order=S2
I'd look at anything from the Kentucky KM-150 and above

And of course there is always https://www.thomann.de/fr/mandolines.html I don't really recommend them however

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jiri Lebeda still builds mandolins,but only to order. I think a new one would be out of the OP's price range. Most certainly,contact Trevor at TAMCO UK & keep an eye on what he has in stock,
Ivan

[almeriastrings]

Watch Ebay too.... this one (a 'The Loar LM-520') is showing up right now (NFI).

[Hany Hayek]

I would say that flat back revised by a professional and for 75 euros is a great choice. Avoid that bowl back Gelas style double top. They are very difficult to set up from what I read around on the net. If you are in Europe and want a bowl back contact Dave Hynds
http://www.mandolinluthier.com/mandolins_for_sale.htm
Best of luck in your choice and when you buy that flat back feed us back with outcome

[derbex]

That flatback looks lovely I hope it works out well. Send us a picture of your bowl back, they can be a bit a little tricky to get started on but rewarding to play -yours is a modern one but it would still be good to check the string gauges for that and your flat back.

[Camp]

I love the look of that bowl mandolin. Reminds me of traditional lutes. I could picture people playing that at Renaissance fairs.

The flatback has a very aesthetic look to it too.

I'm interested in hearing more about your planned travels; do you have a route figured out already?

[Mement0o]

I'm interested in hearing more about your planned travels; do you have a route figured out already?

Thanks to the Classifieds and pheffernan, I have find a Gibson A00 near Paris. I'm gonna meet the owner this week-end.

Still I'm intrigued.

Would an vintage entry level Gibson like the A00 could be beat up by a modern Eastman like the MD505?

I wonder if the technological advances that the Eastman has benefit could make the difference.

I will try both this week-end. Place your bets.

[Timbofood]

The A-00 has a certain panache, that is not found in most more "modern" builds. I'd do that for the right price. They are instruments with character.
But, I'm an old geezer anymore

[derbex]

The bridge position on the bowl back looks wrong, is the instrument under tension and tuned up?

[Mement0o]

The bridge position on the bowl back looks wrong, is the instrument under tension and tuned up?

I know it is but when putting new strings and adjusting the bridge for the mandolin to be in tune that's what came up. What part of the instrument could we suspect to be responsible for this?

The A-00 has a certain panache, that is not found in most more "modern" builds.

That's what I thought in the first place. But that would be interesting to define what you called "panache". (happy to see a beautiful french word here and there on mandolincafe )

[multidon]

I can understand tilting the bridge a bit to achieve good intonation, but you might have to accept less than perfect intonation in order to get the bridge to at least be all north of the cant. Straddling the cant, with the treble end north and the bass end south of the can't will just not work. The bridge base cannot be making good and proper contact with the top. You can easily see where the bridge has been located by the imprint (which is north of the cant where it should be). How bad is the intonation on the bass side with the bridge located in its previous place? Like I said, if it's just a couple of cents sharp, you may just have to call that close enough for jazz.

The strings look too heavy to me. GHS extra lights would be my choice. If they are Thomastik, then "weich" (light). That may be what you're using though, I'm judging by appearance, not actual measurement.

[Mement0o]

After putting the bridge where it was, that's what I measured.

One of the G strings is in tune when the other is +40c
The other ones are quiet in tune. Max +5c

I guess that's why I tried to move that bridge.

I let my luthier chose them and place them but I think:

https://www.stringsbymail.com/savare...olin-5398.html

[Timbofood]

Mement0o,
There is a certain style and flair that the older pieces of the period have, a style of their own, the use of the stencil, the less "flossy" finish, the humble elegance which bespeaks of its more affluent brethren. The caliber of workmanship used in making a more basic model still proud of the heritage.
Played well it should provide the owner with pleasure and the desire to improve both the instrument and the knowledge.
I wish I had never let any of the mandolins I have ever owned get away but, the need to finance and store the subsequent ones have not allowed the ability to keep them.
This one, should be a really wonderful piece to hang onto. I wish I'd kept my '30's KM -11 and the Harmony, and the Stiver, and ....

Did that make it any clearer?

[allenhopkins]

..Would an vintage entry level Gibson like the A00 could be beat up by a modern Eastman like the MD505?...

These types of questions can only be answered by your trying both of them. You will determine how they meet your needs and preferences. Individual instruments vary significantly; two mandolins of the same make and model are seldom identical.

Two instruments that differ as much as a vintage Gibson A-00 and a modern Eastman MD505, will sound different, look much unlike each other, and have "feel" and playability that may vary widely, even if both are properly set-up, in good playing condition with new strings, and otherwise made competitive and comparable.

It's your money, your ears and fingers, and your preferences as to sound, feel, looks, whatever. Try 'em both, side by side if you can, and pick the one you like better. The perspectives we can give you from 10K miles away, are only our opinions, based on our own experiences. They may give you decent suggestions, but that's about it, as far as I can see.