Fret Wire

[Billy Packard]

Maybe it's just me but I'm tired of big fret wire.

When I ordered my Gilchrist A3 in 1992 from Dexter Johnson, the dealer, he asked if I wanted the "banjo" fret wire and I said yes. I did this mainly because it would last longer. Now that there is stainless and EVO fret wire the issue of how long it would take to flatten the frets is no longer an issue.

I played a recent Gilchrist that had narrow EVO frets and I really liked them, especially in the upper registers where things get tight. The fat wire is much harder to get a clean sound above the 10th fret or so where the narrow wire felt very roomy and easier to get a bright clear note.

Billy

billypackardmandolin.com

[pops1]

I changed the fret wire in a new mandolin after a week and put in smaller wire. Tried to like the bigger wire, but just couldn't do it.

[addamr]

I have a six month old Gibson Mandolin Store custom that came with the big frets. I am seriously considering having it refreted with smaller wire. I thought the larger frets would make it easier to note cleaner, but I find it harder.

Adam

[hucklebilly]

The fat wire is much harder to get a clean sound above the 10th fret or so where the narrow wire felt very roomy and easier to get a bright clear note.

billypackardmandolin.com

Just out of curiosity, has anyone heard of a builder making the frets skinnier as you go up the neck?

[Demetrius]

I'm not sure what's on my Gil, but whatever it is I like it...

[Billy Packard]

Hucklebilly, This was an idea I had a year or two back.

Frank Ford at Gryphon didn't think much of the idea but...

ME... in an ideal world each fret would become skinnier as you went up the neck, right? What I was asking for is a division of, say,
the first 4 at a little wider, then the next 4 a tad skinnier, then the next 4 skinnier, etc. I think the idea of each fret being a proportionately thinner width would provide the optimal result.

I guess if I wanted to plunk down the cash, I could have it done--at least the 4 + 4 +4, etc.

What I know for sure is the Gil with the skinny frets was very cool, like an evening breeze coming in over the waters. A fret job costs +/- $500 with the stainless steel wire which presents a barrier for me at this time. My instruments all have stainless or EVO and aren't going to wear out in my lifetime so for me to proceed would be depriving the baby of new shoes. Or me having dinner!!

Billy

ps I just might go ahead anyway with one mandolin.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Billy - Are the frets in the Gil. larger than the frets in your Weber "Fern" ?. I ask only because some folks regard those as 'banjo style' frets. Do the Weber frets make playing easier ?. Bruce told me that the Weber fret size is FW 37080,which is available in EVO Gold as well as plain Nickel,
Ivan

[Loubrava]

I bought a 2002 Gibson F9 unpacked it and my first thought was am I going to be able to play those skinny frets (at least they looked skinny compared to my Weber) why I had that perception of skinny frets being harder to play I don't know. That F9 played great I've heard the term "plays like butter" this one did. For some reason I thought larger frets wire made playing easier maybe for some it does. Is easier playing the idea behind the larger frets or is there some other reason. I'm having a mando being built for me and I'll get to choose the wire size I'm thinking something in middle will be good.
lou

[AlanN]

I had Skip Kelley install the fatter EVO wire on my Gilchrist 5. I love the feel, texture and play of this wire. It allows for full note stretching and easier bending of notes to get a fatter sound. And best of all, there is nary a mark on any of the frets (high traffic areas included) after 2.5 years of regular use. Simply amazing stuff.

On my vintage F-5, I went with the thinner wire, of course.

[Willie Poole]

I sold a Kentucky KM-900 because it had the skinny frets and bought its sister the KM-956 because it has thicker frets, it also has a radius fretbosrd which I am still not liking, maybe after I get used to it I might like it but how long does that take?...

Willie

[Josh Levine]

I had the Dude put gold evos on my new Duff because I could not get used to the little frets up the neck. I found it harder to accurately fret up there with the tiny frets. I feel like I have a bigger landing space and can more easily fret with the big evos. Dude's setup doesn't hurt either.

[kurth83]

Fret wire height and width are somewhat independent. I prefer taller wire, but still pretty narrow on a mando.

[Billy Packard]

For comparison,

-Lynn did the frets on my Gibson F4 Hybrid in 5/2012 with EVO,
-Bruce Weber replaced the frets with Stainless Steel in 11/2012.
-Frank Ford @ Gryphon did the Gil with SS in 10/2013

They all look to be the same size, about 1/8" measured in place with a micrometer. Both the EVO and Stainless wear WAY better than the standard 'nickel silver'. My observations between EVO and stainless show the stainless exhibiting no signs of wear on the Weber which I play most of the time. The EVO frets are showing very minor wear with less use. Based on that I had the Gil done with stainless.

It was only after playing someone else's Gil with the noticeably thinner EVO wire that I got on this rant.

Regarding fret thickness I guess like most things it comes down to personal preference, as with the flat/radius fretboard. I don't know who got the ball rolling with wider fret wire, but originally (as I recall) Dexter mentioned comfort and longer wear, which makes sense because a thinner wire will wear quicker. Again, with the stainless steel frets the wear issue becomes a minor consideration.

Billy

[kurth83]

I thought I would add a bit more to this thread, although maybe it belongs in another section.

Fret sizes are in 100's of an inch, are expressed as heightxwidth, and usually drop the periods.
So 100x80 would be .100" tall and .80" wide.

Here is a nice (if older) fretwire chart (note that wire covers all fretted instruments, not just mando).

http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html

They are in my area too, down in Santa Cruz.

For guitars, any fret height over about 100 (.100) is marketed as 'Jumbo'. And Jumbo frets are usually wide too.

The tradeoff for taller frets is easier to fret but more likely to have intonation problems if you bend the string down too much. The intonation problems are much more pronounced on guitars, especially electrics where jumbo frets and very light strings are the norm - you must fret right next to the fret, and very gently, if you fret in the middle of frets and press hard the B and E strings will go very sharp. I also see it on electric bass, must fret near the frets or intonation and buzz become problems. And I know some very good guitar players who just abandoned taller frets because they never got reliable intonation out of them.

When fretting well with taller frets however, your fingers no longer need touch the fretboard. Meaning you don't waste partial fretting energy compressing the pads of your fingers on the fretboard, all the downward pressure is dedicated to the strings themselves. Often people used to short frets are amazed at how much easier taller frets are to use (the effect is more pronounced on a guitar, but it is noticeable on mandos too).

On mando's, intonation problems are minor, because the frets are so close together, and string tension tends to be pretty high.

Stock Eastman are small frets, at 53 X 31. I had a Godin refretted to 80/40 and it sure was nicer. Notice that is a tall thin fret, but not overly tall, and works very well for mandos. Some brands come with taller frets, kudos to them IMHO.

Mandos can also use somewhat wider frets, but the tight spaces above the 12th fret can cause problems. It is aesthetically odd and can even defeat the purpose of taller frets as you end up hitting the frets themselves with your fingers. Which I think was the OP's main complaint.

In summary:
80x40 and 80x43 are common fretwire sizes and hit the sweet spot for me on a mando.

[Ivan Kelsall]

This is the 'standard' Weber fret wire FW 37080 is that high / low / medium ??. Jescar give the fret size as H x W in Thous. of an inch. ie. .118" = 118 thousandths of an inch,
Ivan