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Thread: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For science!

  1. #1

    Default CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For science!

    (Sorry, I just like saying "For science!")

    We've all heard lots about how great Cumberland Acoustic mandolin bridges are. I was preparing to install one on my The Loar LM-310f mandolin, and since ears and memory can be tricky things, I thought it might be useful to set up a comparison. It didn't seem that anyone had done it before, and I hoped (but wasn't sure) that it might be useful to other folks, but the original idea was just for my own personal frame of reference.


    As I stated in another thread when I mentioned what I was planning:


    Really though, the idea was originally just to definitively compare to see which I liked better, tone wise. I really like the way the middle 2 courses sound on this mando, in particular (very throaty, like it has an awesome cold, lol), and was hoping the new bridge would spread the magic out.

    While I was at it, I just thought that since folks often rave about the difference/change in volume, that would be worth looking out for as well. Obviously, whatever the results are, it's not necessarily going to apply to everybody's situation, so I'm not trying to present it as any kind of potential final verdict...just an honest comparison. I just hate doing a bunch of work on something and having nothing to show for it besides "Well.......I THINK it might sound better.....maybe?"

    The idea is to record it maybe 4 times, twice with the old bridge (1 with mic and 1 with JJB pickups) and then twice with the new bridge, both natural and plugged in....maybe with the SPL meter as well (I happen to have one from Amazon that I got for setting up my surround sound). Then I could edit it and jump back and forth to compare the 2.


    I did done 3 things for the comparison (while playing the same series of 4 of 5 songs excerpts -primarily chords and arpeggios- but some standard picking as well):

    - I've recorded the mandolin, plugged direct, into Reaper.

    - Simultaneous with the above, I ran my SPL meter, pointed at (and level with) the mandolin, from 1 meter away...with a video camera pointed at the SPL meter and recording the readings (and incidentally the audio, of course). The meter was set to fast response and "A" weighting.

    - Separately, I recorded the mandolin with a large diaphragm condenser microphone, an Oktava MK 219, with headbasket mod.

    I decided not to finish the mic part of it, but if anyone really wants to hear the microphone version, I can record the "after" version. I still have the "before" files. I just felt that the "plugged in" version did a great job of representing what the mandolin actually sounded like, both before and after. It's no problem to finish it, I just didn't want to bore anyone with a 3rd, likely unnecessary, video.



    It took a week! After multiple days of sanding, with maybe 8 full hours of sanding (more than 6 for sure) to get it from the "raw" bridge base, as it arrived in my mailbox, to fully fitted to the mandolin top. I actually did multiple fittings, but the final 2 were to get it as close as possible, so I could then adjust the bridge for intonation.....and then resand again, due to the fact that I changed the location of the bass and treble sides slightly to shorten/lengthen the string for proper intonation.




    The first video is the camera pointed at the SPL meter, the whole time, while I play through each song snippet.....first on the stock bridge, then the CA bridge. I note the peaks in db as I spotted them.

    The second video is the same performance, as what you see in the first video, except the mandolin is plugged direct into my DAW and being recorded. I edit the song snippets to A/B back and forth between the stock bridge and the CA bridge.

    Sorry for my poor playing (compounded by the fact that I'm aware it's being recorded, lol)









    The strings were the same strings for both tests, except I went through _three_ busted E strings. They really don't like being detuned and retuned.


    I don't know what the magic of the CA bridge is, but I did notice how much more tightly the posts fit into the hole, with zero play or wiggle. You have to line up the saddle perfectly parallel with the base to put it back on, because the holes are too perfectly sized to allow for any tilt when you're putting it back on. It just won't go.

    Notice in the video where I basically pick up The Loar bridge and wiggle the saddle loose from the base, one-handed? That would be difficult or impossible with the CA bridge.


    Anyway, I hope these videos are interesting (at least the 2nd one! ) and useful, especially for new folks, or folks who are on the fence about it. Tone is subjective, of course, but there is no denying that a CA bridge makes a significant difference, cos my mandolin is audible proof, and there's certainly no wishful thinking about it!

    Feel free to ask any questions, if you have any. There's probably something I've forgotten about, that I meant to mention, so I'm sure I'll post back again.

    Oh and let me reiterate that for a Loar 310, you probably want the short version of the CA bridge. Who knows, it may have sounded differenter (haha) if I hadn't sanded the saddle so much (probably not though, since it was like 2mm of wood removed, or less).

    Oh and Steve, if you see this, thanks for the awesome bridge!


    Thanks,
    Bill
    Last edited by Billkwando; Jul-24-2017 at 2:08pm.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Nice job ! Big difference & if I decide to keep my 310 I'm going to install the CA bridge after hearing that. Did you fit/re-fit your stock bridge with the precision you fitted the CA bridge with ? I re-fit the stock bridge on Saturday and I sanded off quite a bit to get a perfect match to the arch top and I got sort of the same result more volume and it seemed to clear up the tone some. The fit and set up on my 310 was horrible ! If your stock bridge was fitted up properly then the CA bridge is money well spent. Thanks for taking the time to do the videos.
    Lou

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  5. #3

    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Quote Originally Posted by Loubrava View Post
    Nice job ! Big difference & if I decide to keep my 310 I'm going to install the CA bridge after hearing that. Did you fit/re-fit your stock bridge with the precision you fitted the CA bridge with ? I re-fit the stock bridge on Saturday and I sanded off quite a bit to get a perfect match to the arch top and I got sort of the same result more volume and it seemed to clear up the tone some. The fit and set up on my 310 was horrible ! If your stock bridge was fitted up properly then the CA bridge is money well spent. Thanks for taking the time to do the videos.
    Lou
    I did fit the stock bridge just as carefully. That's actually covered in the video I posted before about bridge fitting. Naturally, fitting stock bridge is much quicker (still takes a while) and easier, because it was already made for that mandolin....so not nearly as much material needs to be sanded off to fit.

    That's another reason why the CA bridge is impressive. It's not being compared to some gappy bridge that was slapped on by the factory. I spent a lot of time fitting that stock bridge, because at the time, I had no intentions of upgrading, and wanted the best out of the instrument.

    Something I'd forgotten to mention before is that, while I liked the way it sounded previously, sometimes I would pick it up and start to play, and would suddenly think that the mando sounded very "boxy" or "ukeleley". Only sometimes, but still. That never happens with the CA bridge!

    I have a feeling it would sound even better with a tone gard or a viola shoulder rest on it, to isolate the back. The couple times I've strummed it and held it out so the back could vibrate, I was very pleased with how full sounding it was. Almost like a cross between the way it used to sound, and the way it sounds now.

    I'll be doing some experimenting with different picks, as well as varying the dynamics and attack of my playing. It seems like it may be capable of a wider range of tones now, based on how you play it.....whereas before just "loud enough" or "too quiet".

    I also feel like a lot of folks who need a preamp might find that they don't after installing a CA bridge (I never "needed" one, before or after). When I used calibrate the mandolin in Rocksmith I used to have to strum it REALLY REALLY hard for the calibration menu to recognize it. After that, it was fine, but that's because the game was artificially upping the gain to make it loud enough to match the other music in the game. That's what the calibration does, yes, but it seemed like it had to work so much harder before.

    I have a feeling I won't have to warn my family upstairs anymore. I literally did this, I would yell up and let them know that I was not strumming a non-chord as loud as I physically could to be obnoxious, but rather, to calibrate my game.

    I was seriously shocked by the visible difference in the size of the waveforms on the screen, when looking at the stock and CA waveforms next to each other in my recording program.

  6. #4
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Thank you for doing this. It matches what I heard when swapping bridges on my LM-220. And what I tried to describe in the other thread.

    Again, thanks.
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  8. #5

    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Hey Bill--

    Great job! It's really satisfying to see your results. There's hardly a week that goes by here at the Cumberland Acoustic shop where we don't experience this same thing on the mandolins that come to us for new bridges. Of course, I could go on and on about the results we achieve, but it is so much more powerful to hear it from a third party user that has no interest in our business other than the products we provide. (Oh yeah, your check is in the mail . . .) ... Just kidding ...

    Seriously, you put a lot of work into these comparisons, and I, for one, really appreciate it. I must say that I am glad with the results too!

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  10. #6

    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Quote Originally Posted by Steevarino View Post
    Hey Bill--

    Great job! It's really satisfying to see your results. There's hardly a week that goes by here at the Cumberland Acoustic shop where we don't experience this same thing on the mandolins that come to us for new bridges. Of course, I could go on and on about the results we achieve, but it is so much more powerful to hear it from a third party user that has no interest in our business other than the products we provide. (Oh yeah, your check is in the mail . . .) ... Just kidding ...

    Seriously, you put a lot of work into these comparisons, and I, for one, really appreciate it. I must say that I am glad with the results too!
    Hey Steve!

    It was a lot of work, but I try my best to contribute when I can. I always assume that if I'm looking for clarity on a particular issue, that other folks are too, so I try to make videos and posts that help other folks who come after, looking for the same info. A lot of folks are skeptical when it comes to pricey upgrades, as I was myself, (or afraid to alter their instrument without a clear road map) so I try to help take the guesswork out, whenever I can.

    I honestly didn't know what to expect when I ran these tests. I hoped for the best, and for a true improvement. However, for all I knew, I was gonna end up fighting people on the forum if I ended up having to post that the upgrade made little or no perceptible difference. I must say, I'm bit surprised that this thread hasn't had more discussion or activity, so again, I do appreciate you chiming in.... I'm guessing that if it had been bad news, it would've been up to 2 or 3 pages by now, full of folks probably telling me that I didn't fit it properly to the top, and things along those lines. "Bad news travels fast", etc.

    On the subject of the great improvement this bridge has made, as far as volume and driving the top, I've been experimenting a lot with different picks now, whereas before, the old bridge sounded fine with a regular medium-type pick. I didn't know what all this crazy pick talk was about, until I installed the CA bridge. It made the mandolin much brighter sounding, as you can tell from the the videos, which is why I made it super clear that I was using a .73mm pick.......because now I see why that makes a difference, and I want other noobs and/or The Loar owners to understand that as well.

    Last 2 days, I've been leaning toward the Primetone 1mm pick.....in the standard guitar teardrop shape, cos old habits die hard.


    Edit: I forgot to mention, that I DID go back and try calibrating Rocksmith 2014 with the new bridge, and it made a world of difference. Here's the video I made. Keep in mind I'm still using my old floppy .73mm pick for this test (For science!). If I had done it with the Primetone or another thick pick, it would've been a great deal faster and more responsive, as far as picking up the mandolin.




    I seriously used to have to kick the mandolin's ass to achieve the same result. I genuinely wonder if a lot of the folks who need preamps really just need a CA bridge, because the output from the pickups has probably doubled (or more), in my personal experience.
    Last edited by Billkwando; Jul-27-2017 at 10:28am. Reason: Added another video I made last night

  11. #7
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    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Steve, your bridges are the best ! I put one on my Eastman 615 about 6 months ago and it's made the difference in a mandolin that sounds its price and a mandolin that easily competes with those 2 or 3 times as expensive. People don't even realize how much a difference a good bridge will make on a mandolin.
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  13. #8
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: CA Bridge vs stock bridge: A/B comparison (w/ video) For scie

    Never used anything but CA bridges on my builds and my personal mandolins...nuff said
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