Tried out a fiine Distressed Master Model F-5 at Music Emporium

[Dave Reiner]

I took a break from work to wander over to TME in Lexington, MA, wanting to try out this mando that just got listed. It's cool to live close by, but it can be dangerous!

This DMM is really a fine instrument - great playability, woody and rich sound, quite loud with even volume across the strings, and tasteful distressing. Excellent set-up and a fine rectangular case that replicates the look of many years ago.

I have no financial interest in this instrument.

It's from 2005, and signed by Danny Roberts. Excellent photos on TME website.

Dave

[allenhopkins]

Link. Priced at $13.5K.

[JAK]

Dave, did you try it against the Gibson F5V Fern (2015) that is also there? In the videos the Fern sounded more open and responsive, at least to my aged ears.

[Paul Busman]

I don't get the whole distressed thing, although on that particular mandolin it's pretty subtly and tastefully done. On some electric guitars I've seen it looks like they distressed them by driving a tank over them.
What does it mean when a label is signed eg by Danny Roberts? Does one luthier make the whole thing, just the final work and setup or what?

[BradKlein]

That mandolin looks like a sibling to one the best known DMMs out there, 'Brutus' formerly owned by Joe Vest, who brought it to many events and shared it with probably hundreds of players as the example of what Gibson could produce at the height of their mandolin revival. An effort spearheaded by the late Charlie Derrington and others. Both were signed in 2005 by Danny Roberts, but I would argue that they belong firmly in the Derrington-era of Master Model production. Charlie, and most or all of the others who 'revived' high end mandolin-making in the Loar tradition at Gibson, were still working there on mandolins. Here are some photos for posterity of the one for sale at TME and one of Brutus for comparison.

[Jack Roberts]

I really want to click "Add to Cart" for that Collings MF5V they have there. The only thing holding me back is it is about $9,000 more than what I have in the bank...

Did you get a chance to play that as well?

[Eric F.]

Joe let me play Brutus once when he was still at Gibson OAI. I'm not a big fan of the distressed thing, but I would gladly have taken that mandolin home with me. It was everything you could hope for in an f-hole instrument. If the one at TME sounds like Brutus, it's going to make someone very happy.

[Dave Reiner]

Dave, did you try it against the Gibson F5V Fern (2015) that is also there? In the videos the Fern sounded more open and responsive, at least to my aged ears.

I didn't, but might get a chance next week.

[Dave Reiner]

I really want to click "Add to Cart" for that Collings MF5V they have there. The only thing holding me back is it is about $9,000 more than what I have in the bank...

Did you get a chance to play that as well?

Didn't try that either. I used to own a Collings MF5 Deluxe Varnished model which was super.

[BradKlein]

Joe let me play Brutus once when he was still at Gibson OAI...

Joe was a great liaison (along with Charlie Derrington) to this community, and really conveyed the excitement of a small group of folks at Gibson who were dedicated to living up to their own mandolin legacy. Due to the vagaries of that company, and the very small place that mandolins play at the Gibson of the 21st century, that story of revival is being somewhat forgotten.

But in the long run, players will look back at the Derrington era, and the big stories will be Gibson matching (or coming close) to the height of 1920s mandolin artistry -- and also the rise of a small number of top mandolin luthiers around the world - a small number of artisan manufacturing companies - and a large number of skilled luthiers making mandolins.

I haven't played the DMM in Boston, but I will if it stays until my next trip to Boston!

[Josh Levine]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why MAS exists.

[DataNick]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why MAS exists.

Does anyone know where "Brutus" resides?....I'd love to play it and compare..etc...

[BradKlein]

Hi Nick. Brutus lives in Brooklyn these days.
Let me know when next you pass through NYC!

[Paul Busman]

What does it mean when a label is signed eg by Danny Roberts? Does one luthier make the whole thing, just the final work and setup or what?

I'd still love an explanation of this.Thanks.

[MikeZito]

I don't get the whole distressed thing, although on that particular mandolin it's pretty subtly and tastefully done. On some electric guitars I've seen it looks like they distressed them by driving a tank over them.

I'm with Paul on this. Although I love the look of a genuinely play worn mandolin (e.g., Bill Monroe's Loar), most of the other 'distressed' instruments that I have ever seen look like they were 'abused', and not 'distressed' . . . this one however was very nicely done. If I didn't already have a play-worn F-5G coming on Monday, I might be tempted . . . .

[BradKlein]

What does it mean when a label is signed eg by Danny Roberts? Does one luthier make the whole thing, just the final work and setup or what?

Gibson has a tradition, going back to Lloyd Loar of having a supervising luthier/acoustic engineer, 'sign off' on their master model instruments before they go out the door. And the tradition was revived at the same time they were reviving the techniques needed to compete at the top end of the mandolin game. You could certainly ask Danny Roberts for example, but my impression is that the signer has inspected each instrument. But the philosophy of small factory production was and is that efficiency and top quality could be achieved with a succession of craftsmen who specialize in some aspect of instrument building. It's a team effort and always has been, so far as I know, at Gibson, Martin, Collings...

[DataNick]

Gibson has a tradition, going back to Lloyd Loar of having a supervising luthier/acoustic engineer, 'sign off' on their master model instruments before they go out the door. And the tradition was revived at the same time they were reviving the techniques needed to compete at the top end of the mandolin game. You could certainly ask Danny Roberts for example, but my impression is that the signer has inspected each instrument. But the philosophy of small factory production was and is that efficiency and top quality could be achieved with a succession of craftsmen who specialize in some aspect of instrument building. It's a team effort and always has been, so far as I know, at Gibson, Martin, Collings...

+1....And Danny R. was known to play every mandolin that had a signature at that time; if it didn't meet his standards, it never went out...Big Joe can add more...

[Mandobar]

There's a pretty big price difference between a DMM Gibson and an F5G.

As for the distressed electrics, the aging on the Collings models is so authentic you have to look twice, sometimes three times. They really have the process down pat. Dan Strain (Danocaster) does an excellent job on F-style guitars. I recently saw a guitar at TME by Frankie Montouro, a frighteningly close vintage reproduction of a prewar D-18. Frankie has had the forethought to obtain Martin licensing, so he won't be hounded by those cease and desist orders.

I'm headed to TME early next week to "tiptoe" through the mandolins there.

[Russ Donahue]

It's tough...Southern Maine is "just close enough" to TME, but not "drop in" convenient!

[f5loar]

Is the DMM a sales gimick like the Fender guitars started doing by charging more for that vintage old look? Not really. Gibson's DMM mandolins IMO really do play and sound better. However, I do know of one man who couldn't wait to get the new MM and then a few years the DMM came out and he felt betrayed. So he sent back his practically new MM to have Gibson do the "D" to it and it cost him $6,000 to have it done. So now you have to think it's a sales gimick, kinda like those new car dealer "add ons" that end up costing 1000s more and really don't do any more than the factory had done. I've not heard Big Joe and Danny or anyone else from Gibson actually say how they go about doing the "D" to the MMs but it's my theory, they finish a MM and in a batch of MMs they pick the best one or two and then redo them to the "D" status before they leave the factory. That way they know these are the best of the best and therefore do deserve the higher price tag. It sure explains why the ones I've played are really great mandolins. It would also explain why I've seen a DMM with the new style flowerpot. I mean seriously you going to make what is suppose to be the look and sound of a vintage early 20's F5 and you are going to put that new style flowerpot in there on purpose? NOT! It was just a great sounding MM that got pulled to the side too have that factory "add-on".

[Phil Goodson]

F5Loar: That makes a lot of sense to me. I had a 2005 DMM a couple years ago that had the new style flowerpot and it made no sense to me why they would do such a thing. But the mandolin sounded great, so I bought it.
Your explanation sounds plausible, although I don't really understand why a new flowerpot is needed on a new Master Model, since it claims to be trying to replicate, in essence, the old Loar models.

[MandoAblyss]

If I understood Tom Ellis correctly (PPI makes the inlays) the old style flowerpot does not fit on the current headstock. Not something I can see why looking at pics, but don't question the fact.

[Mandobar]

It's tough...Southern Maine is "just close enough" to TME, but not "drop in" convenient!

It takes me just about an hour, which isn't bad considering the inventory, and the ambiance.

[Demetrius]

There's a pretty big price difference between a DMM Gibson and an F5G.

As for the distressed electrics, the aging on the Collings models is so authentic you have to look twice, sometimes three times. They really have the process down pat. Dan Strain (Danocaster) does an excellent job on F-style guitars. I recently saw a guitar at TME by Frankie Montouro, a frighteningly close vintage reproduction of a prewar D-18. Frankie has had the forethought to obtain Martin licensing, so he won't be hounded by those cease and desist orders.

I'm headed to TME early next week to "tiptoe" through the mandolins there.

I'll be curious to hear what you thought of the current mandolins in stock...
I bet the DMM is great.

[Phil Goodson]

If I understood Tom Ellis correctly (PPI makes the inlays) the old style flowerpot does not fit on the current headstock. Not something I can see why looking at pics, but don't question the fact.

I question the fact, given that some DMMs have the new flowerpot and others that the old flowerpot. Same headstock size & shape.