Arthritis?

[Cochiti Don]

Hi, I'm a 72 yr old newbie. I bought a Seagull S8 as my first mandolin. I love playing it and I wish I'd started 30 years ago. I bought Bert Casey's Mandolon Primer about 6 weeks ago and I think it's pretty good. I'm currently working through the pain in my fingers and it's getting better but my knuckles hurt and I'm wondering if I started too late or if ther is some home remedy for the fingers. Thank you in advance
Don

[Ray(T)]

Welcome to the forum Don. Providing your mandolin is well set up, playing it with an arthritic condition is unlikely to do any harm providing you don't overdo things. So far as I am aware, exercising the affected joints may well have a beneficial effect.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Hi, Don!

I'm 65 and pretty new to the mando, too. It hurts my fingers and hand, too. A few things:

- How you hold it makes a big difference. Don't nestle in the crook of your thumb like a guitar. Hold far enough that you can slide your right forefinger between your left hand and the mando neck. And instead of pressing straight down on the strings guitar-style, let them flatten out a little and come down on the strings at a softer angle.

- Playing every other day rather than every day helps. Shorter sessions might be in order, too.

- Some folks take their favorite anti-inflamatory before picking up the mando. Mine is aspirin.

Give it some time. Your fingers will tell you if you started too late. Unless they put the kibosh on it, keep on pluckin'!

[Mark Gunter]

Hi Don! At 62, I'm a late starter too, been a couple years now on mandolin. About five years ago, I began putting a whole lot of time on guitar (life-long player), and I just worked on through the pain of arthritis. I found that while playing and practicing more did not help the pain of arthritis much in the beginning, what it did was to increase my mobility in the hands. Your mileage may vary, but fretting stringed instruments and working at it is good for me. Keeps things limber and after a few years it *may* even help with some of the pain, presumably due to the increased mobility.

Picking up an instrument for the first time is usually not easy, and requires regular work and practice as well as playing. I consider that a good thing, and enjoy the work; it's fun. So have fun, and work up to your endurance, try not to overdo it in the beginning. Ibuprofen is my friend, sometimes.

Welcome to the forum!

[HonketyHank]

Hi, C. Don. Welcome.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Started back up playing about 2 years ago after a 23 year lay off. 66 year old, retired Blue collar professional with arthritis in both hands. Worse in left (fingering hand). Have noted marked improvement in both hands with regular playing. Also after experimentation have found certain aspects of the neck shape, size, and fretboard type to be more comfortable to play. Best for me is a more rounded shape to the neck, with a 1 1/8" to 1 3/16" nut and radiused fretboard. Any radius is fine. A flat fretboard with a V shaped neck can become uncomfortable after a lot of playing/practice. The exception would be a narrow 1 1/16" nut with V neck and flat board. The hand pain I do get is limited to the palm and the fingers. Best treatment for it seems to be Arnica Gel and a couple of aspirin. I still pretty much play/practice every day.

[choctaw61]

Welcome to the forum Don.Play the mandolin! Just don't over do it.Three years ago today I totaled out my Harley and me.Two years nearly getting up walking over 15-20 ft.Bought a cheap mandolin for therapy.Now I got most of the use back in my arms. walking good as I was really pushing myself to get up going.The arthritis was was worse than i ever imagined.I still have arthritis i don't take medicines for it or any pain now. The worse thing a person can do is to do nothing.Those joints need to work and drink lots of fluids.Check with your dr.of course.Above all stay active.Make sure your mandolin is properly set up also.I wish you the best as I know about your pain. There are still days when the weather is about to change these joints bones and all the metal hardware in me remind me that it's there.

[Pete Braccio]

Warm up those fingers before playing! Stretch them out like you would your legs before you went for a run.

If it starts to hurt, stop playing for a bit. (I'm talking hours, not days) If you start "playing through the pain", that is when you're going to hurt yourself.

Everybody should be doing this (myself included).

[Louise NM]

This is your left hand that's hurting?

As others have suggested, make sure your set up is good: you don't want to press the strings down any farther or harder than you have to. If it's getting better rather than worse as you go, that's a good sign. Stretching your hands after you play is a good idea, too.

Cochiti Pueblo or Cochiti Lake?

[Cochiti Don]

Hi Louise
Cochiti Lake. It's nice here. My left hand is hurting but not too bad. It's hard to press the strings down but with the Seagull , the factory set up seems ok. I don't know what else to do
Thanks

[Louise NM]

You might have someone look at it. Is the bridge adjustable?

The guys at Borrego's Guitars in Santa Fe (St. Michael's Drive) have been lovely, helping me get things figured out. High Desert or Candyman could look at it, too. If you tend to head south for errands, I'm sure there are several options in Albuquerque.

[RodCH]

Warm hands are always better. Just soaking your hands in warm water for 10 minutes before starting will help a lot, as well as feeling heavenly. And I agree with the folks here who say that the regular exercise will help your hands in the long run, not hurt them.

[Cochiti Don]

You might have someone look at it. Is the bridge adjustable?

The guys at Borrego's Guitars in Santa Fe (St. Michael's Drive) have been lovely, helping me get things figured out. High Desert or Candyman could look at it, too. If you tend to head south for errands, I'm sure there are several options in Albuquerque.

Thanks Louise
What I really need is a teacher. Any ideas here? I can go to ABQ as well
Don

[Louise NM]

I'm looking for one myself!

[William Smith]

Arthritis is no fun, I'm full of it due to some bad meds the Dr.s gave me in my late 20's "the most evil Levaquin" that led to severe leg swelling eventually veins popping, and spraying blood all the time, in shower, walking, just laying in bed and if I couldn't get it to stop well that would be it for me!, so long swollen legs/ankles left nerve damage, then went to the liver, that went to hell, working me up for a transplant at 35, 3 long years dealing with Pittsburgh trips to see a heptologist "still not happy with that guy, blamed it all on my beer drinking, cause I told him I liked beer, oh but no it couldn't of been Dr. prescribed medication that caused all my damage" liver issues no fun if ya know what hepatic encephalopathy is! luckily 1 GREAT Doc saw something and said it was a rare heart condition so a test confirmed it and had open heart soon after test at 36 to remove a calcified constrictive pericardium "casing of your heart" Mine was the worst the head thoracic surgeon had ever seen/ the thickest also, was real surprised I was alive. cause I was actually dying on the couch slowly. Actually almost died a few times-more than one ambulance ride here!. I share this because I'm full of arthur in my joints and in my left trapezius bone "bone thats connected to thumb in palm" But there is always hope and stuff you can take to help I've heard fish oil, apple cider vinegar with the "mother" I can hardly move in the morning till I get the hottest shower possible. If ya have nerve damage there is something thats called gabapentin, I think its like Lyrica? Also Opioid pain killers "used in moderation if ya can't take arthritis meds like me due to liver" I've also found the more ya play as long as you don't beat your mandolin the better you feel, sometimes I still have pain in the hands while playing but hey at least I still am alive and can keep making noise.. Well my post my have went above the ? but I've learned a person can live with most anything. Hope this post helps someone

[Mike Scott]

First of all welcome to playing mandolin. I am 70, and have only been playing about 8 years. I am a no talent hack, but play about one to one and a half hours almost every day. As others have said insure your set up is optimal. Also ensure you are holding the mando correctly. As others also said warm up your fingers well and do some stretching prior to practice. It is not uncommon to experience some joint pain when starting a new repetitive activity, but it should abate after a little while. Especially at the old f%rt stage we find ourselves in. If the pain persists, it may be advisable to see a doc and see if you have arthritis-not necessarily the case right now. In preparation for it, I took up the Dobro a couple of years ago. Not as easy nor as much fun, but it's still playing music. Hope this helps. Good luck!

[pops1]

Not eating processed foods, gluten or nightshade plants all are supposed to help arthritis. Also not drinking alcohol. I have been dealing with arthritis in my hands for some years now. I cannot eat gluten for other reasons and that has helped, processed foods are harder to stay away from, and I have recently found about how nightshade plants can actually cause pain in arthritis sufferers. It all sound weird, but another thing to try as opposed to chemicals that are not that good for you anyway. My mandolin has an incredible set up and plays very easy and that helps a lot. Good luck all.

[Cochiti Don]

I've only been playing now for about 7 weeks. I really don't know if my mandolin is set up right. The seagull doesn't have an adjustable bridge. I know alcohol doesn't help but I can't give up my beer just yet. It's my third finger that's the worst. It seems to press the strings at an odd angle. Thanks for the help

[Paul Busman]

Hi Louise
Cochiti Lake. It's nice here. My left hand is hurting but not too bad. It's hard to press the strings down but with the Seagull , the factory set up seems ok. I don't know what else to do
Thanks

I'd bet that the setup is not as good as you think it is. Get that Rob Meldrum e-book and learn how to check and fix the setup. YOu'll find your mandolin a lot easier to play. Don't overdo it-- you're asking your hands to do things they've never done before.

[NursingDaBlues]

Several good suggestions posted. If you’re ready for some more, here are mine.

1. Set-up: Like others have already stated, a good set-up will help immensely. My suggestion is to try to have the action lowered as low as possible. Then use light gauge strings, such as a set of D’Addario EJ73.

2. Since you’re starting out, forget/ignore all the talk about tone, volume, and speed. Those are not priorities. Getting to know the mandolin that you’ll be playing on is a priority. Play only on one mandolin; don’t practice on it one-day and then switch to another mandolin the next day. You’ll want to build up some consistent muscle memory. Switching mandolins can disrupt creating that muscle memory. Accuracy is also a priority. You don’t want to start out by developing bad or sloppy habits.

3. Relax. Many folks tend to get anxious/apprehensive/tight when starting out anything new. Anxiety can be a good thing because when channeled properly it can make you more aware of what’s going on around you and more aware of what you’re trying to do. However, keep that anxiety under control. Relax. Before any practice take a few moments to deep breathe. If you can practice in front of a mirror, that will be even better. When you get ready to practice look at your shoulders. If they are hunched up and your arms are pressed close to your sides, these are signs that could mean your anxiety is causing your muscles to tighten (without you even realizing it). Try to relax those muscles. Lower your shoulders. Rub the neck muscles to get them to loosen up. Move your arms and elbows out from your sides a little. Relax your toes and get them to uncurl (seriously). Tightness anywhere (especially your shoulders) will translate to tightness in your hand muscles. Relax. And stay loose. Keep glancing at that mirror to ensure that you’re not tightening up.

4. Focus on a light touch with your fretting hand. Many folks have a tendency to apply more pressure than is necessary when fretting. It’s a natural response, and the more anxiety we feel, the more force we apply to the strings. Some folks will even white-knuckle while fretting. So, once again, relax. In the beginning, practice a simple chromatic scale on one string; up the scale and back. Stay in the first position (frets 1 through 5). With each note count slowly: pick – 2 – 3 – 4; pick-2 – 3 – 4; pick – 2 – 3 – 4; etc. Be sure to count slowly. As you pick each note notice the minimum amount of pressure that you have to apply with your fretting finger to make that note sound without muting or without buzzing. Let your hand (not your head) remember that amount of pressure. Then move on to the next string. Yes it’s a tedious exercise but we’re trying to preserve our hands and not let arthritis pain get the best of us. Once you have established a comfort level, you can add picking every other count (pick – 2 – pick – 4); or picking every count (pick – pick – pick – pick). Just don’t lose sight of the minimum amount of pressure you need to apply to make a note sound clearly. Do this for about ten minutes every day/practice session. Just focus on a light touch. As an added bit of information, it takes more pressure to fret in the middle of two frets than to fret adjacent to the fret. Plus you’re getting a more accurate note. So try to keep your fingering next to the fret. As I said earlier, accuracy is a priority.

5. Stay relaxed. If you start feeling a little frustrated, stop and walk around. Or just end the practice session for that day. Just remember. It takes time to build up muscle memory. It takes time for the eye-hand coordination to get accustomed to something that it has not done before. It takes time for new brain synapses to build and allow you to move forward.

Hopefully, these tips will help you minimize the arthritis pain, increase the mobility of your hand and fingers, and allow you to truly enjoy the mandolin.

[Elb2000]

I have osteoarthritis in my hands, and my thumbs are bothered the most. I saw a doctor/specialist who said there is not anything besides over the counter meds to help. I’ve tried a number of herbal remedies and topical creams that did not help. I think changing my mandolin to have a better neck profile has been my best answer. I asked a sports medicine doctor I know. He said once it gets really bad then I can have a thumb arthrodesis (fusion), which will stop the pain and fuse the joint so it does not move. I then decided my hand arthritis did really not hurt that much.

[Billy Packard]

Welcome Don,

I'm jumping to the bottom of this thread because I have a little recommendation that has helped me tremendously.

I'll be 71 in 9 days so even with the best of DNA I should be noticing things in my joints. I take an herbal product made by the brand name "Solgar." The product is called, "7." I have used this product for more than 12 years. I know it works because when I forget to use it the joints in my hands, (left in particular) start getting ache-ee. One I resume taking '7' the sensations subside.

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't have any stock in the company (!!) I just know it helps me.


Billy


billypackardmandolin.com

[Al Trujillo]

Welcome Cochiti !! My instructor told me that 'more mature' players (that would be...*clearing my throat* -old guys like us) have an underlying sense of the emotion within music and its easier for us to play slower songs (waltzes and the like). Timing, lifting and lowering volume on slow songs to build emotion is just plain fun. Some great suggestions on other things here but for me, all I can say is focus on playing slow and don't get caught up in wanting to play 'Big Mon' just yet.

[ollaimh]

i'm 64 and i have been playing all my life. i used to have finger pain and tenosynovitis(the real name for tendonitis) is do daily hand stretching excercises and the hand movement from tai chi, and reiki on occasion. i have not had serious problems since, of course good diet and vitamin e and d(both help conective tissue).

if you have special kind of accupuncture it;s good. high powered electro-magnets, instead of needles, this does wonders with back and leg pain. would help hand pain as well if you need it.

otherwise playing musical instruments keeps you young

[Cochiti Don]

I'm having my first lesson today. I'll bring my Seagull to him and see what he says, but I'm not hopeful. The mandolin is not his main thing. I'd just like to play some tunes I like and join up with a couple of bluegrass players who just moved to town. I still have my Stratocaster and play some blues once in a while. He's too young to understand the aches and pains of old guys I fear.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Don