Approaching an improvised break

[Pup]

I just thought this might be a fun topic. When I take a break without knowing the melody I rely mostly on pentatonics and arpeggios, with flatted 3rds and stuff. What do you all do when playing over a break you don't know? I know for me there's a difference between what I would do and what my nerves allow me to do. TIA for sharing.

[JeffD]

What do you all do when playing over a break you don't know?

I don't.

Now, when I take a break over a tune I know, I try various things. I try to exaggerate the drama in the tune, or draw out the emotion, tell the same story the tune tells but more emphatically, or I try to create some drama by how far I go from the tune without getting lost (not far I have to admit), or I try sometimes to do great excursions but make all the tune's natural landing places. Sometimes I just play the melody with perhaps some tremolo or emotional dynamics.

But if I don't know the tune, my first step is to learn the tune. The melody and the chord changes.

[JeffD]

oops, double post

[MontanaMatt]

I try to keep track of the chords and associated scales, and make sure to emphasize the landing notes for the transitions. If the phrase repeats itself, I try to work from one octave to the other, either up or down. I also like to do a big four string chordal finish on the resolving chord.
Bold faking implies mastery, even if you're faking it

[Mike Snyder]

Stringing together licks without reference to a melody give me an uneasy feeling and I avoid it whenever possible. Being completely unfamiliar with a melody makes no sense to me. Surely someone kicked it off and stated the melody before the mandolin got the nod. Even once through will give you an idea of melody. Little pieces of it at the right time makes a lead, rather than some noodling. Early on my playing was criticized for relying too much on scales and arpeggios and not making reference to melody. I've worked hard on using my ears before using the pick. Seems to work, usually.

[Pup]

All great points. I think I fall somewhere in between. I seem to internalize the melody then knowing scale and chord options, some combination thing happens there. I'll either play around with the melody or add melody elements to to a pattern... I'm gonna try to keep in mind to land on full chords. Good call Matt!

Thanks again. This seems like a good discussion without leading down the dark path of theory/anti-theory.

[tree]

Don't be afraid of theory, it can profoundly enrich your musical life. If you are willing to learn theory, a great teacher is a huge asset - just take it a step at a time and incorporate it into your overall musical curiosity gradually.

I have always leaned on my ears to get me where I wanted to go, but knowing just a little bit of theory (say, the chord scale) really helps me get along in a situation where I don't know a song and am offered a break.

Also, don't be paranoid about making mistakes, embrace the simple fact that they happen and move on quickly. Just that mindset alone can free you up to better follow your ear and your heart.

[Phil Goodson]

Listening through the first verse for melody and remembering the timing of chord changes sets the stage.

When in unfamiliar territory, I often rely on the 3-5 doublestop shape and the surrounding major scale shape (w/ index finger on root). Landing on a doublestop (4-6 For the IV)(2-5 for the V) that corresponds to the chord change helps keep me out of trouble and gives quick access to that chord's arpeggio. (numbers correspond to scale tones of the key)
That's my usual M.O. anyway.

[Pup]

When in unfamiliar territory, I often rely on the 3-5 doublestop shape and the surrounding major scale shape (w/ index finger on root). Landing on a doublestop (4-6 For the IV)(2-5 for the V) that corresponds to the chord change helps keep me out of trouble and gives quick access to that chord's arpeggio. (numbers correspond to scale tones of the key)

Good one, Phil. Thanks!

[Pup]

Don't be afraid of theory, it can profoundly enrich your musical life. If you are willing to learn theory, a great teacher is a huge asset - just take it a step at a time and incorporate it into your overall musical curiosity gradually.

I have always leaned on my ears to get me where I wanted to go, but knowing just a little bit of theory (say, the chord scale) really helps me get along in a situation where I don't know a song and am offered a break.

Also, don't be paranoid about making mistakes, embrace the simple fact that they happen and move on quickly. Just that mindset alone can free you up to better follow your ear and your heart.

Thanks, Tree! I must confess to being a bit of a theory geek myself. The bit about not being paranoid to make mistakes is maybe the most important part to progressing. It can be so easy to talk ourselves out what we know will make us better.

[JeffD]

My apologies if I came across snarky before. It is one of my things I am sure - whenever I hear the question "what do I play when I don't know the tune", I get wrapped up in it, like "what do I do if I don't know what I am doing".

One of my less snarky comments would be "if I knew every tune I would never get to drink."


But that is not what you are asking, so here is a more thoughtful more caffeinated response.


The best of breaks, in my opinion and according to my taste:

- are spontaneous, arising out of the energy of the immediate moment
- are all about the tune being played
- are like ice sculpture, beautiful because they are ephemeral

But everything isn't always so cut and dried, of course.

If I can at least figure out the landing points of a tune, I can try and improvise interesting ways of getting from one landing point to another, using pentatonic runs, scale fragments, pseudo base line runs, what ever.

To me, at the minimum, I want to convey that we are going on the same journey as the original tune, but perhaps wondering a little, or being playful. (as opposed to spontaneous and real time composition untethered to the present moment.

[T.D.Nydn]

This is in bluegrass type of music,,when thrown in a lot of players..I like to find what key everyone's in..not hard,just look at where the guitar puts their capo,that gives me a good idea,then find some base notes and fake it with double stops,its what I would do first time around anyway,raucous double stops are loud and draw attention,later on I might descend into madness...

[pops1]

One of the bands I play in we call the music "eco folk rock". Leads do not have to be melodic and I don't really need to know song. Old country in another band (Carter family etc.) I try to keep the melody in my head but not adhere too strictly, but play off it. By the time a lead comes around a song will have been sung enough times that unless it has a tricky part that is hard to remember the phrase it should be no problem to play a lead. If in doubt watch the guitar player's hands and play off the changes he/she is making.

[Bill McCall]

Since you will know the key, you will know all of the chord tones. While the melody is being played or sung, figure out the first note, or fake that by running up to it, 1-2-3, 3-4-5, 5-6-1, 5-1-3 are typical phrases. Since you paid attention to the melody, you should know if the tune went up or down, and where the changes are. On many bluegrass songs, you will be 'in the ballpark' and may surprise yourself how close you are to the melody. Recognize that songs are built with repetition, so each line is not brand new. You'll get better at it over time. It really helps to sing, as you will hear the intervals better. Enjoy the trip, expect a few speed bumps and crashes along the way.

You can't play too much melody.

Between the improv and singing in harmony, its the best.

[farmerjones]

Because I just heard the melody played to me moments ago,
I would simply parrot the melody right back as the solo/break.

The fancy stuff, comes on the second break if I get one.

[Pup]

Great stuff. Thanks all.