Triplet Pick Direction When Followed by eigth notes

[haggardphunk]

I am working on a kickoff and wondering which way most people prefer to pick the scenario of having a triplet on beat one followed by eighth notes.

I find myself doing DUD DU DU DU but it gets clunky when played up to tempo.

[JeffD]

The specific tune would dictate the choices. Not the awkwardness of the play required. I would only relate that I spend a lot of time practicing DUD DU over and over, for a piece I was working on.

In one workshop I was taught an exercise DUDD UDUU DUDD UDUU which is akin to the drummer's paradiddle. Real brain busting exercise which seems impossible to get down, and the benefits of which I have not fully realized. I use it routinely to "break" my brain from routine automatic picking and put the brain back in charge of the ups and downs.

[foldedpath]

I agree the tune would dictate the approach in most cases. For example, DUD DU DU DU is how I start "Brenda Stubbert's Reel -- sheet music here at thesession.org.

It helps preserve the secondary offbeat pulse in the reel with downstroke emphasis on the next note following the triplet. At the beginning of the B part of that reel I'll play it DUD A DUD A and then alternate picking for the rest of the B part.

WRT getting it up to tempo, it helps if you have a good "treble" ornament under your fingers. The triplet in Brenda's is an actual written triplet, but in Irish trad we use banjo-style quick triplets as an ornament too. It's a quick little flick of the wrist to get the triplet fast enough. Ideally you can do it in both directions, starting with a downstroke or an upstroke depending on where it is in the tune, to preserve the main rhythm pulse. The pulse is always the most important element of a fiddle tune. In other genres of music you may need a different approach.

[ralph johansson]

In many cases the best solution is to not pick all notes, using PO's or HO's. When I was getting started on the mandolin I often used DU, splitting the down stroke over the two strings of one course.

[Mark Gunter]

I got into a little jig playing for awhile and found that what is often called “jig picking” - DUDDUD - worked best for me. I’ve read people posting from time to time that they don’t think that kind of picking works up to speed, but I disagree. It just has to be fully assimilated and practiced, many ITM players use jig picking at crazy speeds.

Anyway, having gotten used to playing that pattern in 6/8, I found that it just sort of crept in, seamlessly & subconsciously, to my blues playing when triplets are called for. Since alternate picking had been assimilated many years ago on guitar, the transition from one to the other in a given piece seems to occur naturally.

I agree with JeffD and foldedpath about doing what the specific tune calls for (and foldedpath is a “real” ITM player where I’ve only dabbled). What is important is the GROOVE and that you feel the groove and learn to express it in the way that feels most natural to you - at the same time, never fearing to try and learn something new that might work out better.

Bottom line IMO I would use DUD for the triplet and DUDU for the eighth notes if in 4/4 or 2/4 so far as I can analyze my own playing. Playing up to speed just requires the practice to feel it and use it naturally. In fact, I recently wrote a short article on this subject, with video and sheet music, you can find it here: https://theamateurmandolinist.com/20...iplets-in-4-4/

I try to maintain the pattern even when not picking - that is, when using slides, ho, po I still tend to land the next picked note where it belongs in the pattern, and if I miss it or mess it up I just keep going until it feels right again.

[mdowlin]

I am working on a kickoff and wondering which way most people prefer to pick the scenario of having a triplet on beat one followed by eighth notes.

I find myself doing DUD DU DU DU but it gets clunky when played up to tempo.

If you are looking to place a triplet before the first beat of the tune -kickoff , lead-in, anacrusis- then why not try UDU / DU DU DU DU? Rather like a fiddler's up bow.
DUD gives better rhythm on the beat I find.

[Ky Slim]

The tune, the genre and the desired effect matter but the notes in the triplet also matter. If the triplet is 3 of the same note then the only option is to pick them all and for that I would do DUD. If there is more than one note in the triplet I might use hammer ons or pull offs (D-Ho-U, D-Po-Up, D-U-Ho, D-U-Po) OR I might try to pick them all DUD.
Even though the OP didn't mention genre of the tune the talk of triplets always seems to lean the conversation toward celtic styles, but sometimes in bluegrass a triplet gets used at the beginnings of tunes and solos and gives a nice punchy effect. Like a quick triplet on a double stop as a pick up into a solo. For this I'd do DUD.
Good Luck!

[ralph johansson]

If the character of the tune calls för picking each note I've found DUD UU to feel most natural in 2/2 (1 and 2 and), with the DUD on the 1 or 2 , and the UU on the and) If the figure passes from one course to the next higher one, I might split it over the two courses, e.g., D-D-U (courses 2-1-1).

[Simon DS]

Always good to get different perspectives on triplets, quadruplets, quin… and then make up your own mind. Here’s one:



https://youtu.be/FXnQ5l-Qo1A?feature=shared

[John Strong]

When working triplets into 4/4 down-up down-up rhythms, the DUD UU DU DU approach always seemed natural to me.

[Jim Bevan]

I know that my approach is not one adopted by the majority, but I play the triplets up-down-up. My philosophy (also not one adopted by the majority) is that, instead of thinking of the mandolin as a fiddle with frets, I view it as a melodic-range guitar, and that's how the (excellent) guitarist that I was working with when I came up with this approach was playing his triplets – playing them as though they were the upbeat to the next beat, sort of falling into the down-up of the following eighth notes.
I play the two eighth notes preceding the triplet down-down – seems to me to make it swing a little harder.

[Marguerite]

I am working on a kickoff and wondering which way most people prefer to pick the scenario of having a triplet on beat one followed by eighth notes.

I find myself doing DUD DU DU DU but it gets clunky when played up to tempo.

It depends on tempo and context.

If it's so fast that you need the eights in alternate stroke, and you have a pause or longer note before the triplet, I would start the triplet in upstroke. So that would be UDU DU DU DU

If you have a pattern triplet - 6 eights or triplet - eights, and it has to be really quick, there might be no other choice than just going alternate all the way DUD UD UD UD UDU DU DU DU, which would mean that your accent is sometimes on U and sometimes on D.

But that's something you should practice in any case, you also need it for quick stretches in triplets DUD UDU DUD UDU...

[Simon DS]

On fast hornpipes I like: |(DUD) UU DU DU |
It’s actually the UU that I like because the rhythm is not the same as DU so it gives the triplet a sort of rhythmic ripple afterwards.

On slower hornpipes I like the |(DUD) DU DU DU| because it seems cleaner.
(I don’t play |(DUD) DU DU DU| on fast hornpipes because there’s too much of a gap between the second and third D).

However, if the (DUD) falls on the last pair, ie. |DU DU DU (DUD)| then I’ll play it like that even if the D on the next measure is late because it accentuates the following measure.

Maybe with experience this change.
Though I don’t like to use a lot of variations as that affects the whole rhythmic foot-tapping feel.

What I noticed about Edna Scahill’s triplets (and I may mis-hear it) is that his are quite regular, each note of the (DUD) is generally about the same length. And for this reason they sound like tenor banjo triplets.
On the other hand most mandolin triplets are squeezed up together, so that the whole (DUD) sits in the middle of the empty space left by the missing two eighth notes but there’s a longer gap at the beginning and end of the (DUD). And there’s a slight slip jig-like swing to triplet even though it’s fast. (Maybe that’s what I hear).

[ralph johansson]

In many cases the best solution is to not pick all notes, using PO's or HO's. When I was getting started on the mandolin I often used DU, splitting the down stroke over the two strings of one course.

Here's how I did it in 1969, "Crossing the Cumberlands II":

[ralph johansson]

Here's how I did it in 1969, "Crossing the Cumberlands II":

obviously something went wrong here. You can find the recording (September 1969) I'm referring to on Mando Hangout/Media/mp3 library/ under the letter C. As I recall ALL my triplets used split downstrokes. I playrf the guitar part, too, capoed 3rd. On the other version there were only guitar (uncapoed) and mandolin, no banjo