When your 60's F12 is not a 60's , but a 70's.

[f5loar]

I ran across this rather interesting video of a new owner of a 1963 Gibson F12 that he was told had been re-done by Randy Wood some 20 years ago. A good video to watch to see how easy it is get the 60's mixed up with the 70's on the F5 , F12 and A5 models. All these models were given total re-tooling, refinish varnish, tuners, tailpiece, bridges and pickguards and the cases were different than any 60's models. Gibson also used overlap of the same numbers during this time. A 1966 number could read the same as a 1975 number. There are books that can tell you the difference if you know your change in specs. The one in his video is all mid 70's F12 with maybe a Randy Wood regraduation in the tone bars.

[Jeff Mando]

I hope he doesn't read this, he seems so happy with it!

[lenf12]

f5loar said "The one in his video is all mid 70's F12 with maybe a Randy Wood regraduation in the tone bars."

So true Tom. To my eyes the giveaways are the plain maple (unfigured) back and the really wide sunburst finish. If the new owner reads this, please don't be disappointed with your mandolin. It looks and sounds great. Randy Wood sure knows how to get the sound out of these much maligned "dark days" at Gibson mandolins. Thanks for posting!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Jim Hilburn]

Those replaced modern tuners are the Gotoh's that are original to that instrument. There's the neck volute which only the 70's had, no riser and crosspiece, and the 70's F-12's had bound headstocks. The orange binding was how they came. The pointy heelcap is a real giveaway.
My guess is Randy Wood had nothing to do with that mandolin. I think this guy was sold a story and a good condition 70's F-12.

[Willie Poole]

Some believe since it is a Gibson it has to be a good one...Maybe he also bought some ocean front property in Arizona...I wonder if Randy Wood ever installed any stickers inside of any mandolins that he graduated? or even a letter to say what was done to a mandolin that he worked on, that would settle a lot of discussions on who did what to them...

Willie

[Vernon Hughes]

The BS about Randy Wood binding the peg head would have sent me running..Actually I'd have started running before that.

[Jim Hilburn]

I've never seen one of Randy's sawn off back mandolins. To anyone who has, is it evident that it was done, or does it look original? Seems like it would be hard to make it invisible.

[f5loar]

well I have seen Randy's work on the regrads. Taking the back off will cause you to loose the width of the band saw or 1/16 in the side width. Hardly noticeable.

[Jim Hilburn]

I have an article by Randy on the process of removing a back. He uses a .012" sawblade by hand and cuts just below the binding. He says to get the work done quickly so the sides don't deform before gluing the back on. Don't sand it so it lines up and says it will be nearly invisible.
The guy in the video says you can feel where it was done, but there is often a ledge along the binding. My reason to question whether the re-grad was done is the claim of the peghead binding also being done by Randy. That didn't happen. However I guess it's possible there is some mis-information more than just lying going on.

[Jeff Mando]

. However I guess it's possible there is some mis-information more than just lying going on.

The new owner is not lying, he is just proud and showing off his "new" vintage mandolin. He is just repeating what a salesman told him, which may be a lie. We all like our instruments to have a pedigree, don't we? It adds to the hobby, IMHO.

On an unrelated note, I own an all-metal handmade parlor guitar that someone copied from your typical parlor guitar. It is really old and oddly enough, being metal sounds like a resonator guitar, although there is no resonator. The man, a guitar dealer, sold it to me at a guitar show and told me it was made by a prisoner in Kokomo, Indiana in the 30's. I like the story and have told it many times, although I never looked it up to see if there is indeed a prison in Kokomo or if prisoners are allowed to make things out of metal? And on and on....... If I wanted to I could make it into a conspiracy theory, in reverse -- but I see no need. I'm not trying to sell and I am happy with the guitar. The guitar does have 30's Kluson tuners on it, which may have come from a donor guitar that was used as a template, I don't know. It is cool and I am fine with that.

[Jim Hilburn]

To be clear, I mean any lying or mis-information would be coming from whoever sold it.

[lenf12]

Randy re-voiced my F-12 in the Spring of 2008. His touch up work to conceal the cut is very clean. If I didn't know, I could not tell. BTW-He signed and dated the inside of the top in pencil, per my request. I am very happy to have him do this work.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Bernie Daniel]

Randy re-voiced my F-12 in the Spring of 2008. His touch up work to conceal the cut is very clean. If I didn't know, I could not tell. BTW-He signed and dated the inside of the top in pencil, per my request. I am very happy to have him do this work.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Agreed Len. I had a 1952/53 F-12 re-graduated by Randy Wood (he did the top board, back board and tone bars and it was nearly impossible to tell that the back had been off of it. The only real clue was the fresh clean maple seen through the f-holes. It made a big improvement in the sound.

I also owned a 1972 F-12 for a while and I agree with things said about the build, fit and finish mentioned -- the '70s F-12s were "fancy" i.e., fully bound, Fleur inlay, lacquered bindings etc. so his description of that part is totally wrong -- Randy did none of that .

However, there would have been nothing preventing Randy from sawing the back off one and re-graduating it so it could have happened -- but the embellishment of the "story" makes one wonder.

These days however it would it be worth doing a re-graduation there are so many low cost, quality options for the mandolin buyer out there? Of course if you had to have a Gibson!

However since the days I owned that F-12 (late 90s) I've learned enough "stuff" from my Mandolin Cafe-on-the-job-training projects that I could do the re-grad in my basement if I wanted to. If you do it yourself, on you own time, that's all you have to spend! I wish I still had that '72 because I sure would try to fix it up. I would take the back off with a hot knife though not a saw.

Of course the video on YouTube is four year old! LOL!

[f5loar]

yeah, I think this guy, who has not come forth from my comments here or on the youtube video, was just told a bogus story that may be half truth. I will say, that dealers, even vintage dealers who deal mostly with electrics or acoustic guitars know nothing about Gibson mandolins so could have taken that serial no. and mis read the confusing Gibson serial nos. listings as being a 60's. It could be an honest mistake, but the story of Randy redoing the binding and no mention of the Randy totally redoing the whole headstock inlay does seem a bit dishonest at best. It's a good lesson learned here, that those wanting a vintage "Gibson" should get that 2nd opinion to even see if it's vintage at all. At least we don't have quit the problem those vintage banjo buyers have with those vintage "parts" banjos! LOL!

[Jess L.]

To be clear, I mean any lying or mis-information would be coming from whoever sold it.

Yes. Some sellers use unsubstantiated rumors and impressive (even if absurd) random keywords as selling points.

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MuseScore 2.1 tutorial

[f5loar]

Kinda like those ads in your local newspaper "FOR SALE: Old used Gibsons small guitar with 8 strings. Has fancy end that holds the strings but most strings have rusted off and broken. The coating on it has small cracks. It has a small label inside that was autographed by Lewis Loud on July 9, 1921. The case has an extreme "musty" smell that I couldn't get out. It belong to my grandmother who bought it new in 1922 and never played it. $500 OBO. "