Another airline problem

[Russ Donahue]

Ouch...for her hands and the instrument!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b6b7adab5f35

A portion from today's Washington Post about the altercation with United Airlines staff:

"Correia, a classical violinist on her way to play in the summer season at the Missouri Symphony Orchestra, asked for an airport supervisor. But the supervisor said there were no other options. The violin had to be checked.

Her attorney, Phil MacNaughton, recounted what happened from there. Correia told the supervisor, “I can’t not take my violin on board. I’ll pay the money. I’ll take another flight. Just tell me what I can do.”

As the altercation intensified, Correia told the agents that she would appeal to their bosses and asked the supervisor for her name, MacNaughton said. The supervisor said she wanted Correia’s name and reached for the tag on her luggage.

“Without provocation, the supervisor for the Chicago-based carrier then lunged for Ms. Correia’s case and, incredibly, tried to wrestle it away from the musician,” said a statement written by MacNaughton."

[Charlie Bernstein]

And United breaks guitars.

[Bertram Henze]

It seems someone watched the 1970s "Airport" movie too many times (the definitive instruction on how to unsuccessfully wrestle cases from passengers).

[Russ Donahue]

So much for the "Friendly Skies"...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Why am i not surprised ?. In another thread, i mentioned that one person's fight experiences wouldn't necessarilly be another's - here's absolute proof !.

There is no 100% guarantee that ANY airline will allow you to carry an instrument on board - unless it's categorically stated as being part of their policy to do so. In this case,things seem to have gone too far & IMHO,the supervisor should be severely reprimanded at the very least. Would he have tried that stunt with a guy ??. Utterly disgraceful in every respect !!,
Ivan

[FLATROCK HILL]

Ouch...for her hands and the instrument!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b6b7adab5f35

A portion from today's Washington Post about the altercation with United Airlines staff:

"Correia, a classical violinist on her way to play in the summer season at the Missouri Symphony Orchestra, asked for an airport supervisor. But the supervisor said there were no other options. The violin had to be checked.

Her attorney, Phil MacNaughton, recounted what happened from there. Correia told the supervisor, “I can’t not take my violin on board. I’ll pay the money. I’ll take another flight. Just tell me what I can do.”

As the altercation intensified, Correia told the agents that she would appeal to their bosses and asked the supervisor for her name, MacNaughton said. The supervisor said she wanted Correia’s name and reached for the tag on her luggage.

“Without provocation, the supervisor for the Chicago-based carrier then lunged for Ms. Correia’s case and, incredibly, tried to wrestle it away from the musician,” said a statement written by MacNaughton."

This is yet another example of the horrendously rude, boorish behavior by employees of the major airlines.
As a pilot of a privately owned business jet, I do seen an upside... Job security.

[greg_tsam]

How could this be true? You mean to say an airline employee attempted to physically remove a person's physical belongings for said person? Isn't that called theft..or assault?

[jesserules]

I can see how a plane could simply not have room for a guitar, but a violin??? (Which in a case would be about the same size as a mandolin, so not just idle curiosity.)

[mrmando]

"No room" is a convenient substitute for "We're too lazy to rearrange a few carry-ons" or "I'm on a power trip."

Look what happened to Rachel Barton Pine in separate incidents, seven months apart.

http://www.thestrad.com/rachel-barto...olin-on-plane/

http://www.thestrad.com/american-air...th-her-violin/

[Ivan Kelsall]

From greg_tsam - "Isn't that called theft..or assault ?" Greg - it can certainly be described as an 'assault',& i'd bet that an assault charge would stand up in court as well. It couldn't be called even attempted 'theft' unless the supervisor in question was trying to permanently deprive the owner of the article. But assault - all the way IMHO,
Ivan

[Tobin]

I've seen this story mentioned on several news sites, and only some of them have mentioned the "rest of the story". She bought the cheapest ticket they offer, which specifically says that it does not include any carry-ons. She showed up to the airport with 3 carry-ons (not sure if that was 3 plus the violin or if the violin was included in the 3). But at any rate, she was asking them to accommodate her for something that was not included in her fare.

I'm all for ensuring that the airlines are treating people properly and respectfully, and following the rules with respect to musical instruments. Clearly, their behavior here was out of line. But these kinds of incidents are easily avoided, folks. Buy the right kind of ticket, and make sure you are not one of the last people on the plane where you have to fight for overhead bin space. And follow the rules, for crying out loud!

[Bertram Henze]

These incidents even have made it into the Drone News

[Explorer]

I've witnessed people being told they had to pay to check certain luggage. I've never witnessed an airline representative laying hands on such a customer

I missed the part of the story where the type of ticket she bought entitled someone to attempt to wrestle a valuable possession out of her hands. Could someone clarify that missing part of the story?

If it doesn't exist, then it seems like nit-picking to justify such an attempt.

Can anyone provide support for the narrative that she violated the rules in a way which justified the attempt?

If not, was that just a red herring to distract from the attempt?

[Kris N]

I missed the part of the story where the type of ticket she bought entitled someone to attempt to wrestle a valuable possession out of her hands. Could someone clarify that missing part of the story?

She bought the cheapest ticket available. Doesn't mean they should have been that aggressive with her. See Tobin's post above for details.

[Tobin]

I've witnessed people being told they had to pay to check certain luggage. I've never witnessed an airline representative laying hands on such a customer

I missed the part of the story where the type of ticket she bought entitled someone to attempt to wrestle a valuable possession out of her hands. Could someone clarify that missing part of the story?

If it doesn't exist, then it seems like nit-picking to justify such an attempt.

Can anyone provide support for the narrative that she violated the rules in a way which justified the attempt?

If not, was that just a red herring to distract from the attempt?

Nobody has tried to justify the wrestling or physical abusiveness that she experienced. My only point was that there was more to the story. She was trying to bring her violin and other bags on board as a carry-on when her ticket did not allow it. They were within their contractual rights to refuse to allow her to carry it on. Everything after that, though, was clearly over the line. Especially since she was trying to be cooperative about it.

[jesserules]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b6b7adab5f35


Her attorney, Phil MacNaughton, recounted what happened from there. Correia told the supervisor, “I can’t not take my violin on board. I’ll pay the money. I’ll take another flight. Just tell me what I can do.”

“Without provocation, the supervisor for the Chicago-based carrier then lunged for Ms. Correia’s case and, incredibly, tried to wrestle it away from the musician,” said a statement written by MacNaughton."

Sure looks like she didn't realize the limitations of the ticket she bought. When she found out she tried to make it right. No excuse for the gate crew's behavior, none at all.

[Timbofood]

The larger problem I see is that we (in general, not the mandolin community) are losing touch with the thing which separates us from the animal kingdom, common courtesy and manners. I read it in the papers, hear it on the radio see it on the TV every day, common sense and courtesy are being replaced by arrogance, road rage, altercations of every stripe! I try to be the good guy as much as possible but, the good guy seems to get short shrift in these days of ordering your cheeseburger from the drive through on your phone to save time!? Sorry, that got side tracked but, you get my drift. I hope.

[LadysSolo]

Someone said if you purchased tickets on-line the limitations of the ticket are not on the purchase page, you have to go to another place to find out the limitations on your ticket. Sounds like she didn't know, and offered to pay to upgrade so she could carry her violin on, and the supervisor got nasty about it. Should have been an easy fix, allow her to upgrade and carry her violin on. But common sense isn't very common........

[Explorer]

My only point was that there was more to the story. She was trying to bring her violin and other bags on board as a carry-on when her ticket did not allow it. They were within their contractual rights to refuse to allow her to carry it on.

Sure looks like she didn't realize the limitations of the ticket she bought.

Someone said if you purchased tickets on-line the limitations of the ticket are not on the purchase page, you have to go to another place to find out the limitations on your ticket. Sounds like she didn't know, and offered to pay to upgrade so she could carry her violin on, and the supervisor got nasty about it. Should have been an easy fix, allow her to upgrade and carry her violin on. But common sense isn't very common........

There's a lot of people stating as fact that she didn't check the airline's rules, and then talking as if they themselves know that she wasn't within those rules. But is that accurate?

In this case, the airline rules do allow the violin as a personal item, even at the discount fare she purchased. It's not even just the federal law in this case, but the airline's own rules being violated.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...calinstruments

"In the case of customers who purchased a Basic Economy ticket, a small musical instrument may be carried on instead of a small personal item, subject to the same conditions below. A larger musical instrument that does not fit in the overhead bin and is brought to the gate will be checked to your final destination and subject to the applicable checked baggage fees plus a $25 gate handling charge."

It's always worth checking to be sure the facts are what one claims... at least if one is concerned about one's own credibility.

I'm glad to be able to point out that even United's posted rules for the Basic Economy passenger allowed the instrument. That will hopefully shut down talk of the passenger not knowing the rules from anyone who didn't actually know the rules allowed the passenger to retain the instrument.

[Bertram Henze]

Just a guess, which could be verified/falsified by answers to these questions:
was the supervisor overworked and or under stress because
- there was a line of 100 people behind the violinist
- checkin/boarding was already late
- his wife was gone when he woke up, leaving a note that she wouldn't come back
-...

Nervous irritation is an increasing phenomenon, and the right moments for discussing laws and regulations are becoming few and far between. Global panic.

P.S. what can we do about it? Avoid panicky situations like
- airports
- train stations
- traffic jams
- sports events
- concerts

It's probably best to stay in a cabin in the mountains or in a trailer by the sea.

[Ivan Kelsall]

It looks as though Explorer hit the nail spot on with regard to one of my personal worries - the airline's own staff seem to have been unaware of their own rules ?. That's something that i've mentioned on other threads regarding this subject. You can NOT be 100% certain that the check in clerks are going to be aux fait with all the rules & regs. Some may be,others not - there is no guarantee - ever !,
Ivan

[Mandoplumb]

It looks as though Explorer hit the nail spot on with regard to one of my personal worries - the airline's own staff seem to have been unaware of their own rules ?. That's something that i've mentioned on other threads regarding this subject. You can NOT be 100% certain that the check in clerks are going to be aux fait with all the rules & regs. Some may be,others not - there is no guarantee - ever !,Ivan

Yes the check in clerk may not know all the airline rules, but the supervisor should. I remember the customer is always right, even if he's wrong. That supervisor should be fired even if the customer was not following the rules, there is NO excuse to justifiy physically taking the instrument from her.IMHO

[HoGo]

WHenever I see situations like this I feel sorry for the instrument, but not always for the musician...
TYpically the story is told just from one perspective (often just word of mouth that can be biased) and the other side may as well have some reasons why they behaved like they did...
Travelling with valuable thing is always risk (thieves, personal can damage or steal your thing or even random guy may unintentionally hit your case that falls down and breaks....) you MUST count with that risk and do ALL you can to avoid it.
I'm sure in this case both sides have their share on the situation....

In several such cases I've seen damage to instruments that were clearly in poor cases. I've seen smashed cello that was in kevlar/carbon case that had virtually no internal padding just few small foam blocks in the corners - the cello cases are often made with very little padding so many models fit in.... But the musician managed to make huge issue out of that...

[Tobin]

Explorer, thanks for doing the "fact checking" on this!

[CES]

This is why I'll be taking a Kala Waterman soprano uke when traveling next week. They won't even know it's there except for the tuners on the X-ray machine, and it's pretty much indestructible. And, if they manage to break it, I'm not out much at all...