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Thread: epoxy or superglue?

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    Default epoxy or superglue?

    Which would be better for gluing together a cracked tuner button, epoxy or superglue? It is a clean crack that closes completely. Thanks, Danny Gray

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    I'd try the CA (Superglue). A note, some plastics don't adhere with superglue, most do.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    I would say epoxy. Superglue is very adhesive but is not strong. Epoxy is very strong.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    I had two break recently, I used superglue, which so far has done fine. I did however, order some replacements from Stew-Mac.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo75 View Post
    I would say epoxy. Superglue is very adhesive but is not strong. Epoxy is very strong.
    Just for fun facts

    Myth busters showed an episode where they lifted 650lbs using one drop of superglue.

    Steve

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    The only issue I've ever had with superglue is a few types of plastic that it doesn't adhere to. It's thin, it binds, and it's strong. I can pull up some epoxied floor tiles in my server room if anyone thinks epoxy is impervious or long lasting. I'm not saying it's bad, there are places it is the only answer but I think the CA is a better choice here.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Is this just a crack part way through, or is the button broken in two? If it's only cracked, only the superglue will wick in to make the repair.

    Try the superglue first. If it doesn't hold you can always go with the epoxy. If you try it in the reverse, I'd think it might be difficult to get the epoxy off in preparation for the superglue.

    In either case, I would tend to glue the button right onto the tuner shaft so the metal to plastic connection would add strength.
    Last edited by Paul Busman; Jun-07-2017 at 8:00am. Reason: added thoughts
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    This might be irrelevant but maybe not. I had a Red Bear "Mondo medium" speed bevel pick break in two equal sized pieces while playing about a year or more ago. So just for fun I took it down to the shop and glued it back together with a drop of ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (a derivative of superglue designed for wood work). I figured it would break immediately but no the pick is still working just fine. Pretty strong considering the tiny gluing surface.
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    FIDDLES with STRADOLINS your_diamond's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    It's thin
    Many tears ago, Florida Luthier Extraordinaire Ross Teigen showed me how to "fill in" a nut on an instrument, that was filed too low. Putting baking soda in the string grooves and applying a drop of CA, then after the CA dries you can file down the string grooves to a higher height.
    Not sure I would call this thickening, it is more like taking advantage of CA's thin properties, but it gets the job done.

    NOTE: Ross probably hasn't done this in many years. He is a Conservatore (no longer a repairman or Luther or mere mortal), but this worked great on my player, many years ago.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    That baking soda/CA trick has been around for years (even here on the cafe ) and it does work. I've used it a half dozen times.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by your_diamond View Post
    Many tears ago, Florida Luthier Extraordinaire Ross Teigen showed me how to "fill in" a nut on an instrument, that was filed too low. Putting baking soda in the string grooves and applying a drop of CA, then after the CA dries you can file down the string grooves to a higher height.
    Not sure I would call this thickening, it is more like taking advantage of CA's thin properties, but it gets the job done.

    NOTE: Ross probably hasn't done this in many years. He is a Conservatore (no longer a repairman or Luther or mere mortal), but this worked great on my player, many years ago.
    Baking soda and cyanoacrylate react exothermally and essentially instantaneously to form a rock hard substance that will work to do a temporary fill on a bone nut.

    But I think that a better approach is to use superglue and bone dust to fix your nut. Here is an example of how it is done with bone dust.

    Bernie
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Almost all of the commercial tuning machines that have the button glued on use ''superglue" at the factory.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    .....and you can dissolve super glue with acetone, if necessary. Most fingernail polish remover is acetone.
    David Hopkins

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    .....and you can dissolve super glue with acetone, if necessary. Most fingernail polish remover is acetone.
    And very possibly the tuner button as well.
    Bill Snyder

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Snyder View Post
    And very possibly the tuner button as well.
    Well, yes. But I was thinking more about getting it on the fingers. It certainly could have certain other less-than-desirable consequences.
    David Hopkins

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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    I'd be more concerned about acetone on my hands than superglue.... I use superglue on my hands all of the time to fix cuts before gigs and in most of the world outside of the US you can buy it labeled as medicinal grade at the pharmacy for use in your first aid kit; not so much with acetone!

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    It's not really intended for medicinal use by itself although it's used by the pharmaceutical industry and compounding pharmacies in making medications.

    I have some "Skin Shield" that sold as a liquid bandage. One of the ingredients in it is acetone. I have sometimes used it that way grandcanyonminstrel has.

    I also found that acetone will dissolve 2-part epoxies, although it takes a while if the epoxy is hardened. Superglue is usually used in small, thinly-applied quantities and is more-easily removed with acetone when dry.
    David Hopkins

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by grandcanyonminstrel View Post
    I'd be more concerned about acetone on my hands than superglue.... I use superglue on my hands all of the time to fix cuts before gigs and in most of the world outside of the US you can buy it labeled as medicinal grade at the pharmacy for use in your first aid kit; not so much with acetone!
    Unless your are washing your hands in acetone (something many chemists actually did occasionally in the pre-1970s days) or breathing a high vapor concentrations in your shop for extended periods you should have relatively little to fear from acetone. Cyanoacrylate is a LOT more toxic then acetone. And as mentioned above liquid skin is mostly acetone.

    An acetone damped rag is great for cleaning things like epoxy resin or binding mud residue off your fingers.
    Bernie
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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Unless your are washing your hands in acetone (something many chemists actually did occasionally in the pre-1970s days) or breathing a high vapor concentrations in your shop for extended periods you should have relatively little to fear from acetone. Cyanoacrylate is a LOT more toxic then acetone. And as mentioned above liquid skin is mostly acetone.
    Other than its flammability, acetone is actually quite safe and relatively non-toxic. However, when mixed with some other chemicals, it can become unstable and quite volatile and that includes some common household chemicals. I learned a little bit while working on the bomb squad.
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jun-08-2017 at 3:06pm. Reason: Fixed quote syntax
    David Hopkins

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    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

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    Default Re: epoxy or superglue?

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    Other than its flammability, acetone is actually quite safe and relatively non-toxic. However, when mixed with some other chemicals, it can become unstable and quite volatile and that includes some common household chemicals. I learned a little bit while working on the bomb squad.
    Well just round things out it should be recognized that whether you use it as a solvent in your shop or not you cannot escape acetone because everyone makes it metabolically in your body via the decarboxylation of ketone bodies like of acetoacetic acid or the oxidation of alcohols like isopropanal. Pregnant and nursing women typically have higher levels of acetone in their blood stream than the rest of the population. Air concentrations of 100 ppm are permissible but about half that is generally considered safe to work in. If human oral toxicity is comparable to rats and you weigh 80 kg (176 lbs) you'd have to drink well over a cup of acetone to be reasonably confident of doing yourself in. That said I do not recommend drinking even a teaspoon of acetone -- but that's just me.
    Bernie
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