http://auction.gorringes.co.uk/asp/f...388359&image=1
This is in a general sale not far from where I live, and I thought other Cafe readers would be interested in having a look. (NFI)
http://auction.gorringes.co.uk/asp/f...388359&image=1
This is in a general sale not far from where I live, and I thought other Cafe readers would be interested in having a look. (NFI)
Cool. Looks like it's gonna need some work, but if it goes cheap enough, it could be a fun project.
"Mongo only pawn in game of life." --- Mongo
Nice. I imagine the painting would give the mandolin a slight change in tone- it would probably depend on the attire of the young lady.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
There is some discussion of these, whether they were made in the UK or not starting here: Flatbacks of Note
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
These come up fairly often, though I confess I haven't seen that particular image before.
I'm also in possession of some information I can't divulge which puts a latest date of about 1911 on these.
Here's the usual two models:
I have a feeling that these were not hand-painted on the backs but were decals. Here are including the same one as the auction from the OP plus another variation like the one that John shows in his video.
Here is another video of yet another of these:
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I just found a web page with much info on these mandolins which also included the odd-shaped Viennese College variation. English Mandolin
FYI:
English Mandolins
Viennese College of Music
By His Majesty's Royal Letters Patent no. 2244
Neapolitan College of Music
By His Majesty's Royal Letters Patent no. 2272
I've composed and recorded a short piece on this mandolin, see video below
Yet again got it in a very poor state, this time it had to be opened at the back as glue failed in few places and the struts were loose but all succesfully has been put back together. Also the finish was a bit tricky this time as I didn't want to further damage the lady on the back as well as loose the original colour of the dye. Here I decided to clean it as much as possible and gently sand the original finish (probably nitro cellulose and dye), touch up the bottom of the lady's dress and few heavier marks and put few coats of tru oil. All over I was aiming to achieve an effect of a well conserved antique rather than "like new" look. Luckily the frets, tuners and neck were in very good condition and required only cleaning.
As for sound characteristic it has loud bright tone with good sustain (recording in a video below), very easy to set up right intonation as opposed to bowlbacked Italian mandolins which can cause a lot of troubles here.
In an old style by Lucas Sobieranski - a piece of music I've composed and recorded on this mandolinetto
in a video below
Mandolin-Banjo
Recording to follow soon...
I got this instrument in quite good condition for it's age but as always the finish was really bad and required redoing completely (back and side – french polish, table and neck tru oil). Some other works like tuners and tailpiece needed cleaning, also had to make a new bridge as the original was damaged and useless.
Further down the page I described and compared both Viennese and Neapolitan College of Music Mandolins
Viennese & Neapolitan College of Music Mandolins
Unfortunately no label inside so make and date unknown but certainly has very interesting look and sound.
Made by Ewald Glaesel
186b Plauenschestrasse, Markneukirchen, Saxony, Germany
Application for patent no 2244 made on 4th February 1905 and accepted 5th October 1905
Application Agents: Wheatley & Mackenzie, 40 Chancery Lane, London W.C.
Made by Ewald Glaesel
186b Plauenschestrasse, Markneukirchen, Saxony, Germany
Application for patent no 2272 made on 28th January 1902 and accepted 10th April 1902
Application Agents: Wheatley & Mackenzie, 40 Chancery Lane, London W.C.
Another Guitar shaped Mandolin with different lady motif
Arthur O Windsor
Flatback Mandolin
Windsor Website Link
Although there was no label inside I've seen same instrument with label Arthur Windsor. Now after finding out about above mandolins being made by Ewald Glaesel, an option appeard that these could have been sold under label of Windsor but produced by Glaesel. Seeing same mandolin with similar patent to violin like and guitar like mandolins it is also likely that it was inteded for English market only.
Now as mentioned above, Viennese & Neapolitan college of music mandolins share exact parts as this one, same kind of plastic was used for pickguard and even have the same concept of brass element inside the instrument near the sound hole, but this time it's a brass spiral attached to a piece of wood next to strut (see photos).
It is hard to tell how much it improve/affect the sound of the mandolin (surely meant to improve sustain) but the instrument sounds really well, has very strong tone and good sustain. Certainly it is very unique concept which I've never seen on any other mandolins (if someone did seen it I'd appreciate if you let me know).
As for restoration I was aiming at maintaining antique look and didn't want to take of original varnish which would come off together with stain so only gently cleaned the surface and added thin layer of shellac and coat of Tru oil. Bridge had to be replaced as had wrong spacing's cut out so I've made a new one (unfortunately old one was in a wrong position for a long time and left marks on the table).
Original frets were high enough after levelling and are retained, fretboard was cleaned and sealed, yet again neck is straight and comfortable and it's really fun to play.
I've recorded a piece of music on this mandolin, see video below.
My recent findings changed my theory about links to Windsor as designer and maker and only one aspect of my theory is now confirmed which is that both Vienesse and Neapolitan College of music Mandolins were intended for English market.
Thanks to Business and Intellectual Property Centre in Manchester who helped me finding copies of application for Patents related to aforementioned Mandolins it is now possible to tell exactly when they were made. Vienesse College of Music Mandolin patent no 2244 was made in 1905 and Neapolitan College of Music Mandolin in 1902 by Ewald Glaesel (186b Plauenschestrasse, Markneukirchen, Saxony, Germany). Both application were made through agent Wheatley & Mackenzie, 40 Chancery Lane, London W.C.
Although these mandolins were designed by German luthier it's still remain unclear where exactly they were made but considering that Saxony had the best source of wood and labour it is more likely they were made there.
Recently I also came across an add on gumtree where description for guitar shaped mandolin was as follows:
"The term mandolinetta refers to a guitar-shaped mandolin. Apparently, these mandolinettas were made in Ancoats, Manchester and were supplied as part of a mandolin correspondence course, which was run by the Neapolitan College of Music between 1870 and 1920. If you enrolled on the course you got a 'free' mandolin "
Although I would leave the manufacture place of mandolins being still in question, I can agree with the latter as Manchester Ancoats used to be called Little Italy because of large amount of Italians living there. It would be very likely that there were good mandolinists from Italy teaching mandolin playing, possibly having their own schools as well.
The question now remains wheter we should call it English or German since the patent application was made in England?
As it is a teritorial patent application it means it was only inteded to be sold in England
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Ahhhh..Blackberry Rag
Yes its very nice, I tell ya what would be better one of Kens with engraving and the angel painted on back, like the one that was in the cafe ads a week or so ago, I enquired but sold. If he'd do it I'd like one with engraving and well bare breasted but tasteful! I asked him but he didn't get back to me, hope I didn't offend but hey who wouldn't want a mandolin llike that
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Interesting… tho that English mandolin page says these Neapolitan College instruments were made in Germany, I see one that is close in resemblance an ornamentation on this eBay sale with an Italian name on the label and an Egyptian city of location. Possibly it is a store label but interesting that an Italian seller would import a German instrument for their store in Egypt.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I like the line which mentions it being in a "distressed box". Most people in the UK would say it's "knackered"!
I'm not into mandolinettos per se but artwork is a definite plus. Here's a picture of my favorite mandolin with artwork.
Len B.
Clearwater, FL
Just for the record I'm adding a photo of my Neapolitan College of Music mandolinetto, to show that they didn't all have the gaudy decal on the back. Maybe they thought the wild grain was attractive enough.
Pretty sure these were made in Germany. Typical German materials and construction; in addition mine has DRGM stamped on the tuners. This stands for 'Deutsches ReichsGebrauchsMuster' and was a kind of lightweight patent which gave the holder three years' protection of their design.
Last edited by tonydxn; Aug-15-2018 at 4:46am.
I've always loved the painting that Ken Ratcliffe does on some of his Silver Angel mandolins. Much nicer than a decal.
It ain't gotta be perfect, as long as it's perfect enough!
I have always loved these paintings (or decals) on instruments. If these are decals, where can I find them ? I will put one on my pancake mandolin.I have a feeling that these were not hand-painted on the backs but were decals.
Who would put a decal on the back of their mandolin!? Doh! I don't Sim Daley would have approved but it was a sticker and was on briefly, lol!
Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
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