Bill Monroe - Bowlback Challenge

[billkilpatrick]

In the wonderful interview that surfaced here recently at the cafe, Bill Monroe states that his first mandolin was a "'taterbug." Having just renewed an interest in bowlback mandolins, I was wondering if any Monroe aficionados have recorded his style of play while using one. I have a copy of Joe Carr's "Play Like A Legend - Bill Monroe Tunes and Songs for Mandolin," from Mel Bay but I'm about a million miles away from mastering his style.

So - purely for fun - would anyone care to take-up the challenge of playing like the mature and accomplished musician Monroe was on his stalwart Gibson, but do so on a delicate little bowlback, just to hear what the man himself might have sounded like at the start of his career, long ago?

[Tobin]

The "Monroe style" of mandolin playing was something that he developed over time. I can assure you that when he first started playing mandolin on that old taterbug, he didn't play like he did later on in his career with his Loar F5. His taterbug days were when he was still a kid, playing with family members. As I recall, mandolin was not his first choice, but it was all that was left after his brothers chose their instruments.

He was playing a Gibson A-style oval-hole by the time he was twenty or so (there are family photos of him with his brothers from the early 1930s), right about the time his career started to expand. But it was still well before his style matured.

So, OK, it would be fun to play Monroe-style bluegrass on a taterbug. But I don't think it has anything to with "what the man himself might have sounded like at the start of his career".

[sgarrity]

About 3:44 in this video...

[billkilpatrick]

[QUOTE=sgarrity;1577492]About 3:44 in this video...

I got a blank space, Shaun - very curious to see your link.

[billkilpatrick]

The "Monroe style" of mandolin playing was something that he developed over time. I can assure you that when he first started playing mandolin on that old taterbug, he didn't play like he did later on in his career with his Loar F5. His taterbug days were when he was still a kid, playing with family members. As I recall, mandolin was not his first choice, but it was all that was left after his brothers chose their instruments.

He was playing a Gibson A-style oval-hole by the time he was twenty or so (there are family photos of him with his brothers from the early 1930s), right about the time his career started to expand. But it was still well before his style matured.

So, OK, it would be fun to play Monroe-style bluegrass on a taterbug. But I don't think it has anything to with "what the man himself might have sounded like at the start of his career".

I know - but being unable to play anything even remotely similar to Monroe's style, I thought it might be interesting to hear what it would sound like on an instrument designed for an entirely different musical style. Also, if recordings existed of him playing a bowlback at a tender age, I'm sure musicologists would have had them dissected and stretched-out and poured over to death, looking for signs of his later genius.

[sgarrity]

Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__EgQO-ALQ

[billkilpatrick]

Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__EgQO-ALQ

Fabulous - Thanks.

[brunello97]

So, OK, it would be fun to play Monroe-style bluegrass on a taterbug....

That's what I know. I play Jerusalem Ridge just about every day on an old Washburn bowl. Somehow they seem just right for each other. I'm sure there are others.

There's an old picture of Mr. Grisman looking high, lonesome and chubby while chopping a bowl.

Mick

BTW "Taterbug" is right up there with "Gibby" on the fingernails-on-the-chalkboard pernicious slangifications.

[Hudmister]

There's an old picture of Mr. Grisman looking high, lonesome and chubby while chopping a bowl.

Mick

BTW "Taterbug" is right up there with "Gibby" on the fingernails-on-the-chalkboard pernicious slangifications.

Can't say I'd agree with you on Taterbug being right up there with Gibby. Seems like everyone used to call them Taterbugs and it is certainly not as pernicious as calling them a bowl. They have always been called Taterbugs in the South and a bowl was for soup and such.

[Tobin]

Taterbug was infamously used by Gibson in advertising to portray bowlbacks as outdated. That makes it a legitimate moniker.

[brunello97]

Can't say I'd agree with you on Taterbug being right up there with Gibby. Seems like everyone used to call them Taterbugs and it is certainly not as pernicious as calling them a bowl. They have always been called Taterbugs in the South and a bowl was for soup and such.

Dude, I'm from Texas. Is that the South? Well, maybe not. A dopey, dopey name. Not Southern in its origin, but a Gibson marketing scheme. Not a lot of potatoes grown in my part of the South--or over where y'all are from either. Lazy, cornpone, pwood, Hee Haw (okay, I liked the show--Buck Owens and Roy Clark, at least). Lazy. Did I say "lazy"?

Bowlbacks are the Ur Mandolin. Read it and weep. Where it all began, whether you are a bluegrass hombre, or a jazzman or a hipster or whatever. Man up with your vocabulary. It's your instrument. Anybody can be a mushmouth punk. BTW I play bowls, archtops, solid body electrics. Mandolins, all.

Vinaccia, Calace, Embergher, Cristofaro, DeMeglio, Puglisi. Like Bob Marley said "If you know your history, then you know where you're coming from. Then you wouldn't have to ask me who the hexx I think I am....." Don't let me down. I look up to folks from Virginia.

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

The taterbug thing was meant as a slur instigated by those crazy marketing people at Gibson. Prior to that they were just mandolins.

[MikeEdgerton]

By the way Shaun, excellent video

[MikeEdgerton]

Do you think they really call this a "blowback" mandolin?

[EdHanrahan]

FWIW: Last year, a concert (by the same trio shown above) in northern Jersey was preceded by a 2-hr clinic in which Mr. Aonzo took us through exercises for developing dexterity, reach, & accuracy. Took my fretting hand about 2 weeks to recover! But the concert was just amazing.

[billkilpatrick]

Listening to that Aonzo video again … anyone else think the mix is awful? Playing is great but if I were in that room, I'd probably be covering my ears.

As for "'taterbug" - folksy, down-home euphemisms can be irritating, yes.

[Tobin]

The taterbug thing was meant as a slur instigated by those crazy marketing people at Gibson. Prior to that they were just mandolins.

Are we sure that Gibson invented the term? The staves on bowlback mandolins do, in fact, bear a striking resemblance to the potato beetle. The term "taterbug" was undoubtedly used by farmers or any other rural denizens who came into contact with this pest, and was probably used for a good century or more before the mandolin craze was brought to the US in the late 1800s. Seeing the similarity to mandolins, and applying the term, would have been a natural progression. I would bet good money that by the time Gibson used the term pejoratively, it was in reference to an already well-known colloquialism.

To be fair, though, the Gibson ads used the term potato bugs or just 'tato bugs. Turning it into "tater" is more the product of a Southern drawl.

For those who are unfamiliar with the ads in question, see this old thread for discussion on Gibson's marketing against taterbugs.

An actual potato beetle, for reference.

[billkilpatrick]

… An actual potato beetle, for reference.

… sound sample, please.

[Tobin]

… sound sample, please.

Sorry, I don't have one. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't sound like a young Bill Monroe!

[billkilpatrick]

Now that I think about it, there can't be too many Bluegrass musicians owning a bowlback mandolin or cafe members of the no-farming community who are plagued with potato bugs. So forget it - bad idea - (grumble-grumble …)

[MikeEdgerton]

Before Orville I'm pretty sure all mandolins were bowlbacks. I could be wrong. I think in that case they might have said "Hey, that taterbug looks like a mandolin!"

The mandolin luthier looking for inspiration sees the taterbug with the stripes and says "Darn, that would look good on a mandolin!"

Everyone is thankful that the luthier hasn't taken his inspiration from a porcupine.

Then Orville Gibson shows up and disrupts the entire industry.

The end.

[billkilpatrick]

Before Orville I'm pretty sure all mandolins were bowlbacks. I could be wrong. I think in that case they might have said "Hey, that taterbug looks like a mandolin!"

The mandolin luthier looking for inspiration sees the taterbug with the stripes and says "Darn, that would look good on a mandolin!"

Everyone is thankful that the luthier hasn't taken his inspiration from a porcupine.

Then Orville Gibson shows up and disrupts the entire industry.

The end.

I think ... I think I can rest now ...

[MikeEdgerton]

Go peacefully into the night.

The end.

[DavidKOS]

Before Orville I'm pretty sure all mandolins were bowlbacks..

There were European flatback mandolins before the carved Gibsons.

[AlanN]

Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__EgQO-ALQ

Marvy.

What is the name of the tune after Fisher's Hornpipe, I think I used to know that one. It's tune #4 in the medley.

Isn't Carlo the guy who can play every page of Jethro's Mandolin Player Mel Bay book, in order and without looking at the music? Amazing.