tonguards ..do they really work?

[varmonter]

I have a new ellis a5. Brand new. My initial impression is that it is a wonderful inst.
It replaced my 20 year old rigel. The ellis is significantly lighter in weight. I unfortunatly am
Not...so the back of the mando resting on my
Craft beer investment tends to dampen the
sound. .much more so than the rigel.So do these tonguard things really help.??
And do you get what you pay for...are there
Really good ones and cheap junk out there.??
Also and more important As the finish is obviosly
Fresh on this inst...do i need to be concerned
With damage at the attachment points..
Thx

[Tobin]

Yes, ToneGards are one of the few mandolin "gadgets" that really do work as advertised, with easily provable results. I'm not sure what other brands/makers have tried it, but I'd go straight to the source for an original. http://www.tone-gard.com/ Tony Pires is also a member here at the Cafe, and very helpful.

I use one on my Ellis F5, and wouldn't leave home without it. As for finish damage, yes, you may notice a little bit of wear at the contact points. Not necessarily on the back of the mandolin, but where the arms grab the sides. He uses surgical-grade tubing that is non-volatile and shouldn't have any chemical effect on a finish, but still, there's always the possibility of mechanical wear from rubbing. I did notice some slight "wrinkling" of the finish on my Ellis around these arms when it was new. But it doesn't bother me too much these days. I want the volume and tone I get from having the back un-damped.

[Paul Busman]

Craft beer investment*-- LOVE it!
For me the Tone-guard has most definitely been worth it. As far as I know, there is only the real thing, no clones. They sometimes show up used on the classified boards here.
I was skeptical until I went to a festival and met a guy who had one on his mandolin. He let me use it on mine, and I immediately heard the difference.
You can test the concept easily enough. Play your mandolin a bit in your usual playing position against your craft beer mandolin
mute Now, move the mandolin slightly away from your belly and listen for the difference. If you like what you hear, buy one.
I've found that while sitting it makes less of a difference since I can easily hold the mandolin away from my belly, but standing with the instrument on a strap, that's a lot more difficult and that's where the Tone-gard really shines.
*I used to live in upstate NY and had plenty of opportunities to invest in some of adjacent Vermont's excellent craft brews.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Yes.

If it sits against your body when you play there is no question that it works.

[Stevo75]

On another thread there was a bit of a debate regarding whether or not the Tone Gard makes a difference for someone else across the room (there was no debate about whether or not it changed the sound for the player of the mandolin). Anyway, they said they did an experiment and found no difference standing out in front of the mandolin with and without the Tone Gard. I did the same experiment with my girlfriend and she did notice a difference (fuller sound and louder). It wasn't a double blind experiment, so it's not exactly scientific, but it was good enough for me.

It probably depends on the mandolin. For me and my mandolin, using a Tone Gard makes a big difference and it seems to make a difference for someone listening out in front of the mandolin. Plus the weight of the Tone Gard hold the mandolin in place. I like the playing position I get from using the Tone Gard, especially standing. In a seated position I have found it makes less of a difference for me unless I'm slouching.

The one thing I do not like about the Tone Gard is that I have not found a case that will fit when it is on. So that means I need to take it on and off a lot. It hasn't done anything visible to the finish yet, but it's probably not great for it.

[JeffD]

The one thing I do not like about the Tone Gard is that I have not found a case that will fit when it is on. So that means I need to take it on and off a lot. It hasn't done anything visible to the finish yet, but it's probably not great for it.

That is a good point. It is best to leave it on. I had to buy a new case. I was looking for a new case anyway as I didn't think the vintage case was taking good enough care of the instrument.

ToneGard is great, and I highly recommend them to anyone who has a "bowlback" physique.

Actually you can kind of test if it will do anything for you. Set your chair into a corner, like the bad boy in school. Play the mandolin normally into the corner, and then away from your body play the same thing. Free up the vibration of the back of the mandolin the way the ToneGard will. The difference you hear is the difference the audience will hear with the ToneGard.

There are some who claim that the further away from the audience you are the less difference the vibration of the back makes. I don't know if this is true, and I don't understand how it would be true, but nevertheless its out there. I play in jam sessions and intimate venues, so it makes a big difference for me. Far from the audience without a sound system, I would play my resonator.

(As I never remove the ToneGard I have little or no concern what it is doing to the finish. I checked once and didn't find anything at all, but I don't worry about it. The gard is part of the mandolin now.)

[George R. Lane]

The one thing I do not like about the Tone Gard is that I have not found a case that will fit when it is on. So that means I need to take it on and off a lot. It hasn't done anything visible to the finish yet, but it's probably not great for it.

I have had my Weber Yellowstone since 2010 and a Tone Gard has been on it for all that time. It did fit tightly in the original case, but that case was very heavy, so I bought a Travelite case and fit it perfectly.

[MontanaMatt]

Very much yes to tonegard. Fits in my Price case just fine. I has made little marks at contact points in varnish, but I plan to use the gard forever, so no worries.

[Chughes423]

Yes! My Eastman 315 went from sounding okay to brighter, cleaner and louder. That's the single best investment I have made so far.

[Bertram Henze]

Whatever helps to keep the back of the instrument away from the "investment" is worth every penny.
I play an OM with a body too big for a toneguard, but I have a bottle of Dr Duck's wrapped in a kitchen towel and stuffed into my right pocket which greatly helps to keep the back clear.

[MediumMando5722]

I like the idea of adding a little weight to the body to help it be less neck heavy, also.

Whether or not anyone besides the player can hear it... who cares? I don't choose strings, picks, and whatnot based on what the other guy likes and hears.

[dhergert]

I also use Tone-Gards on both of my F-style mandolins and I highly recommend them. There is a noticeable volume difference at least from the player aspect and very likely from the audience aspect also.

If you really like the concept of a Tone-Gard and you are really serious about avoiding all muting caused by contact with human body parts, you may also want to get an armrest. And if you're a picking hand finger-dragger like me, you may also want a pick-guard/finger-rest/whatever-you-call-it. But at least in my opinion, of these three device concepts, the Tone-Gard is the most obvious volume improver.

It isn't quite as obvious with the Tone-Gard, but all three of these devices do cause a change in picking-arm and picking-hand geometry, so you may find yourself adjusting your playing to accommodate that change. Some of us really like that geometry change.

For those that care, these devices also help protect the finish of the instrument in the coverage shadows that they produce.

[Tom Sanderson]

I have had a couple of them for about a year now. I have 2 Nugget mandolins, one F5 and one Ajr. I could notice a difference in tone on both mandolins with them on, but no difference with them against my belly or held away. My conclusion was that the tone guards changed the tone by adding more mass to the instrument. On my F5 I didn't like how it changed the tone, on the Ajr it sounded like it enhanced the tone some. This past Easter, I was at my friends house for dinner and brought my mandolins and tone guards with me. He also has 2 Nuggets, An F5 and an A5. He also has a tone guard. We fooled around for about an hour, trying each mandolin with the tone guard off, and then with it on. First playing it against our bellies then away. We did this several times back and forth (he played while I listened, then I played while he listened) With each mandolin. We both agreed that there was little to no difference in tone playing all 4 mandolins with the toneguard off against our bellies compared to playing them away from our bellies, and with the tone guard on, playing against our bellies and with them away. We also agreed that each mandolin sounded different with the toneguard on compared to with it off, but no real difference with them played against our bellies than away, except with the toneguard off there was a slight difference in volume playing them against us. My conclusion is still that the tone difference is because of the added mass. My friend agrees.

[MikeEdgerton]

The Tone-gard is probably the only musical instrument gizmo that I can heartily endorse. Others may not hear a difference in their mandolins, I hear a difference in mine. What anybody else does or does not hear doesn't matter a whole lot to me. I can hear a difference in the instrument played against my belly.

[Stevo75]

I can also confirm that I hear a big difference in my mandolin when holding it against me and holding it away from me (this is not subtle, its a very obvious difference in tone and volume). This could be a function of something specific to my mandolin or some mandolins. I'm sure there are other mandolins out there that might sound the same when the back is held against one's belly and held away (it might also depend on the belly).

Anyway, for me and my mandolin, the tone gard's affect on tone is due to moving the instrument away from my body, not from increased mass.

[Tom Sanderson]

When I replied to this thread I already knew that my opinion was just that "My opinion". I didn't expect anyone to agree with it and am not trying to create a debate. I just felt that it might be useful information. If you like what the toneguard does for you, it does not matter what I think. Use it and love it. I was in a situation where I was looking for another case for my mandolin that would fit a toneguard when I am perfectly happy with the case that I have. That caused me to take a closer look at what the toneguard really does for me and if I thought that there was really enough difference to me to justify buying a new case just to fit the toneguard. I bought one because of all of the positive things that I have read here about them My conclusion is that for me it is not worth buying another case , or packing it separately just to have it. I have been playing mandolin since 1973, and learned early on to keep the back away from my body. Different points of view are always useful unless your mind is already made up.

[sblock]

No, sorry, that's incorrect! ToneGards do not work because they add mass. They work because they provide relief between the back of the mandolin and the player's own body. You can achieve the same relief effect by simply angling the mandolin away well from your body, so it makes no contact, while playing. Of course, this results in an awkward playing position for most of us, which is why we prefer to use a ToneGard! It is particularly hard to angle the mandolin away from your body when playing upright, as opposed to when sitting.

The idea that a ToneGard functions by adding mass is easily debunked. First, the ToneGard only makes contact with the rim of the mandolin, and does almost nothing to disturb its key vibrating surfaces, which are the top and back. Second, you can add some additional mass to the ToneGard, if you like (clip a small weight onto the back of it it!), and you will find that doing so does nothing whatsoever to alter the sound from that heard with the unweighted ToneGard.

[varmonter]

Thanks...i guess my question about the finish
Wear is more related to the "newness" of the finish.
Being softer than one that has cured for awhile.
Do you think i should wait 6 months before adding a toneguard.

[HonketyHank]

Some times when I try to extract my foot from my mouth, I wish I had a tongueguard.

[sblock]

Thanks...i guess my question about the finish
Wear is more related to the "newness" of the finish.
Being softer than one that has cured for awhile.
Do you think i should wait 6 months before adding a toneguard.

It's not so much "wear" (that is, abrasion), per se, but the possibility that the ToneGard, which exerts a small clamping force through the its silicone tubing-covered prongs, can "indent" a finish if it's not sufficiently well cured, if the ToneGard is left in place for months at a time, as it usually is. Unfortunately, some instrument finishes can remain plastic -- in the original sense of that word, meaning deformable -- for quite some time after they are put on the mandolin. It depends on the type and thickness and formulation of the finish. Thin spirit varnish finishes are rather hard, and so are polymer finishes. But many of the nitrocellulose lacquers can remain soft, especially those that are fairly thick. And so can some oil varnish finishes.

Unfortunately, there is no hard and fast rule about how long you must wait, since this depends on the exact formulation, as well as the thickness applied. It might be months of even years, or not at all!

If I were you, I would just go for it, and not worry if the ToneGard prongs produced minor dents in the finish. They might not do this, anyway. And if they do, these tiny marks will not harm the sound and scarcely affect the looks. But you might feel differently about that. One way to look at it is that the ToneGard will protect the back of your mandolin from scratches and dings from other sources (like belts and shirt buttons), and most of those are more unsightly than the minor marks that might -- or might not -- be left by the prongs!

[KGreene]

Of all the gadgets i've purchased, the Tone Guard is by far the best investment. I keep one on each of my mandolins with no issues with the finish...All fit nicely in my Guardian case as well as theorinial cases.

Regards,

[misterstormalong]

I've just fitted a Tone-Gard and it's made a very significant difference. My picking is coming out loud and clear and I've had to throttle back on my chop chords.

Rik

[fidlplr1979]

I put one on my Eastman 615 and immediately heard a difference. The back of the mandolin has a lot to do with the bass response and depth of tone from the lower notes and I certainly hear a difference in that lower notes. I think that area tends to be lacking on a lot if not most Eastman mandolins and Tone-Gards help.

[Explorer]

I don't use any such devices, but I have friends who have enthusiativally used things like the Toneguard, or viola shoulder rests like the Kun Solo or the inflatable Playonair shoulder rests. The folks who use the viola shoulder rests instead of a Tonegurd were more focused in avoiding finish damage, and wanted something which could be put on and taken off easily.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tom Ellis advises that the finish on his mandolins isn't fully cured until after six months have elapsed. Angling the mandolin away from your body allows the back to resonate in the same manner as when using a 'Tone-gard'. None of the mandolin players i know (apart from one in Scotland) use a Tone-gard, & i have no problem hearing them play 'from in front'. I ''suspect'' that the biggest benefit of using a TG is for the actual player,not the listeners. My own Ellis "A" style sounds more than loud enough to me without one. I've also had no comments about it being 'quiet' at my local Folk club.

But it's a matter of personal opinion & choice - as it should be,


Personally,i don't care to hang pieces of metal of any description on any of my mandolins - just in case.