Potentially Dumb(?) OM String Question

[OneChordTrick]

Are the strings for an Octave the same gauge as for a mandolin but longer?

So when I need to replace strings can I get a mandolin set or are mandilin strings sold shorter?

Thanks

[derbex]

They are generally not the same gauge, mine are considerably heavier, you should look for OM strings. It may be worth finding the recommended gauges for your particular instrument as this can vary with scale-length and the construction of the OM.

[CES]

Yep, you'll need to get OM strings. Hard to find locally without a special order, but I've ordered from Elderly and Just Strings without issue.

[foldedpath]

In addition to needing heavier strings, you'll run into the problem that OMs are not standardized to the degree that mandolins are, especially for scale length. There may also be differences in how much string tension is needed to drive a flat top vs. an archtop design.

For example, the D'Addario J80 set for OM works okay on my 22" scale Weber OM with the exception of the .012 E pair on top, which sounds a bit wimpy. So I buy individual .013 strings to beef up that E pair. I've considered going heavier than the .046 on the bottom for a little more growl, but haven't gotten around to experimenting yet.

Your mileage will vary depending on the specific instrument you have. You may get lucky and find a packaged set that works without adjustment, but be prepared to experiment if you need to.

[derbex]

I just realised you are in the UK, Clifford Essex have a decent selection http://cliffordessex.net/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=25 I use the heavies on my Buchanan.

[Ray(T)]

Those prices look a bit steep Jeremy. The next time you want some, can I suggest that you get a quote from Newtone? They'll make you exactly what you want within a couple of weeks.

[derbex]

They have gone up a bit, Eagle Music seem to be cheaper now. And, as you say, there's always Newtone direct, I have used those on my mandolin.

[Ray(T)]

For info. I ordered some for mandola a couple of months ago and they were £10.80 a set. I can't imagine OM strings being that much more.

[derbex]

Cheers, I think Eagle was about the same. Mind you the posh foreign ones for my 17" bowlback are half as much again, come with a wound E string though.

[OneChordTrick]

Thanks - Eagle look to be about a tenner now.

[fox]

The eagle set has pretty unmatched tension though!
What is the scale length of your instrument, is it an arch top or flat top?

[OneChordTrick]

580mm, flat top

[fox]

If you have a locale music shop I would go there and ask for single guitar strings. 13p 20w 30w 46w should work very well on a 23" scale but string choice can be a very personal thing depending on you playing style, instrument construction and even pick choice.
However I would start with the strings I suggest and beef them up if you feel the need too....

[derbex]

You can make up your own set through Eagle, http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/m...string-set.htm, not that you shouldn't try a local shop if you have one.

[OneChordTrick]

Sadly my local shop is now a hairdresser's and next local an estate agent...

[Bertram Henze]

I always make my own sets out of D'Addario guitar phosphor bronze singles (i.e. ball-end, but there are solutions for loop-end strings as well). I order them here (check it out, while you're in the EU )

Guidelines for gauges:
- what the maker recommends
- what gauges were on the instrument at the time of buying
- happiness/unhappiness with the gauges on the instrument, based on tone, volume, playability.

Physical border conditions for gauges:
- scale length of the instrument
- what tension the instrument can stand, structurally
- what tension the instrument responds best to (there is a maximum between too light/too heavy).
I experimented with my Fylde (21") over many years and arrived at the gauges recommended by Fylde, except for the E strings (15 instead of 13).

Doing this requires some basic understanding of strings, e.g. why a longer scale requires a lighter gauge for the same pitch etc.

[allenhopkins]

Are the strings for an Octave the same gauge as for a mandolin but longer?

No. D'Addario J-74 mandolin strings: 1st .011", 2nd .015", 3rd .026" wound, 4th .040" wound . D'Addario J-80 octave mandolin strings: 1st .012", 2nd .022" wound, 3rd .032" wound, 4th .046" wound.

So when I need to replace strings can I get a mandolin set or are mandilin strings sold shorter?

Mandolin strings won't work; too short, wrong gauges, 2nd string on the octave needs to be wound, not plain steel.

[multidon]

Allen nailed it. Also, foldedpath bringing up the point about variability in scale length.

Although there is much variability, they mostly break down into either "short scale" (20-21 inches) or "long scale" (22-23 inches). The best go to set for long scale is D'Addario J80 OM strings. But don't use them on a short scale! They will sound awful and feel floppy. Instead, for short scale I like D'Addario J72 light mandola strings. Yes, they have the right assortment of solid and wound, and yes, they are long enough. Some with short scale, especially Weber owners, like the standard Weber short scale set, John Pearse "Custom" OM set.

Do realize, however, that the best answer of OM owners is to put together an ideal set from single strings. But the above sets are a great starting point. After using one of the sets above, analyze your string courses and decide which you like and which are lacking in feel or sound. Then spend some time with a good on line string tension calculator to tweak things. Graham MacDonald has a great one that I've used for years. D'Addario also has a good one now, geared towards their sets but versatile enough to use for others when you get used to using it.

Another factor is your tuning. All of the above sets are designed for GDAE. You want to pay GDAD? Don't just tune the upper course down. Instead, come up with a slightly heavier gauge that will give you the same tension. But then remember not to tune to back up to E!

Conventional wisdom has it that a pin bridge on an octave is an advantage because you can buy ball end guitar strings as singles, which gives you vastly more variety. To me, that argument is a bit overblown. Pretty much anything you can buy in ball end is available in loop end, too. It is true that, in a pinch, your local music store is more likely to have what you need in ball end. But ordering single strings on line, it makes no difference. And who goes anywhere without spares in case you have one break? Plus, it's much easier to tweak intonation with a floating bridge.

Hope all this helps. I apologize for rambling on more than I intended to.

[Bertram Henze]

Conventional wisdom has it that a pin bridge on an octave is an advantage because you can buy ball end guitar strings as singles, which gives you vastly more variety. To me, that argument is a bit overblown. Pretty much anything you can buy in ball end is available in loop end, too.

That pin bridge argument is also overblown because many tailpieces provide anchors for ball-ends. No need for a pin bridge just for string choice.

[Ray(T)]

You can make up your own set through Eagle, http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/m...string-set.htm, not that you shouldn't try a local shop if you have one.

Those are mandolin strings but, if you ask them nicely, they will do a set for OM. Direct from Newtone is likely to be cheaper and why buy from the monkey when you can buy from the organ grinder?

It's also worth bearing in mind - for our US friends - that strings in the UK are significantly more expensive than in the US. Putting together a custom set of guitar singles could break the bank! My Clark OM takes ball ends and, as I've said, Newtone will produce exactly what you want.