Yet Another Pickguard Question

[Austin Bob]

I'm in the process of getting a new mandolin built, and soon it will be time to choose whether I want a pickguard, and if so, what style.

I know this is a very personal choice, and many of the modern builds do not have pickguards. Gilchrist, on the other hand, seems to favor the full version when a guard is requested.

I am a pinky planter. Well, I don't really plant it, but I do lightly rest it on the mandolin, enough to where I added an abbreviated guard on my Gibson F5 because it had started to develop a bit of a shiny spot.

But I really like the old school look, with a full pickguard.

My question to the group is: Would a full pickguard affect the sound any differently than an abbreviated one does?

Or to put it another way: Has anyone ever switched pickguards from full to abbreviated (or vice versa) and noticed a difference in tone?

[MikeEdgerton]

From past discussions, no. People will argue that point though. The nice thing about a pickguard on an F5 is that you can always take it off.

There's a link in this thread.

[Jim Garber]

If you prefer to play with a pickguard or even just like the way they look, get one. I agree with Mike — you can always take it off.

Personally I prefer pickguards/fingerrests but I have a few mandolins without.

[Austin Bob]

From past discussions, no. People will argue that point though. The nice thing about a pickguard on an F5 is that you can always take it off.

There's a link in this thread.

Thanks Mike, I guess I should have used the search tool.

I've definitely decided to get one on the mando, but I still can't seem to decide to go withe the abbreviated one or not.

[Phil Goodson]

Thanks Mike, I guess I should have used the search tool.

I've definitely decided to get one on the mando, but I still can't seem to decide to go withe the abbreviated one or not.

Consider that with the abbreviated model, you don't need to have a hole drilled into the side of your instrument (just a couple in the side of the fingerboard).

[dhergert]

If I had decided to get a pickguard to use as a finger rest with the intent of protecting the wood surfaces underneath it, my personal bias would be that more protection is better than less. Plus, a 3-point support system for a full pickguard is going to be more solid than a 2-point support system for an abbreviated pickguard...

Either way though, pickguards can be removed and re-installed later if desired.

Remember though that pickguards as well as tone guards, some armrests and even some straps do take up space in a case. So you'll want to make sure your mandolin will fit snugly but not too tightly within your intended case with any of these items installed.

I came to the mandolin world from the 5-string banjo world, where I am among a small group of players who use banjo pickguards all the time -- on a banjo if you get your fingers off the head, there is about a 10% increase in volume that can be heard in testing. Resonators on banjos also help both as echo chambers and to separate the belly from the vibrating part of the banjo.

Mandolins are different animals, but from my banjo experience I have to believe that if an instrument can vibrate freely without being muted by body parts, it has to have some effect on tone and volume. Whether we can hear the difference or not with a mandolin, I can't say for sure. But the nice thing about mandolins related to pickguards, tone guards and armrests is that they also help preserve the instrument.

[pops1]

My mandolin has a full sized pickguard that is only attached to the fingerboard. Hasn't been a problem it a decade and is solidly attached. I prefer the full sized more that an abbreviated guard, I don't like my fingers reaching the edge of the smaller guard.

[sblock]

There is no significant difference in the volume of an instrument with no pickguard, an abbreviated pickguard, or a full pickguard. This was once thought to be an issue (and some folks still cling to the old "wisdom"), but it's been demonstrated time and again. Since you wrote that you tend to touch the top with your fingers while your playing, you really could use a pickguard to safeguard the finish over the long haul. If you care about preserving the finish, that is (some folks don't), and also care about preserving the originality, and therefore the value, of your instrument. So the only question left is whether you want an abbreviated or full pickguard. This is partly a matter of personal aesthetics, so ask yourself "which one do I like better?" Also, as others have noted, the abbreviated guard does not involve a screwhole in the bottom side of the mandolin: just two small holes under the fingerboard. So with an abbreviated guard, if you ever decide to remove it, no one will see the difference. With a full guard, you'll have that hole in the side. Of course, this is just an aesthetic consideration. And it's utterly irrelevant if you will never decide to remove the guard anyway -- and why would you, given how you place your hands on the top?

If it were me, I'd go for the abbreviated guard. I like the looks of these, and I have not experienced stability issues with any of them. I've had them on a Mowry, a Northfield, more than one Weber, an Altman, more than one Pomeroy, etc. I don't still own all of these mandolins, though. The Mowry and Northfield ones were factory attached to the fingerboard extension with screws. The Altman was factory attached with pins, and so were the ones that I installed myself (purchased from either StewMac or from Hill Country Strings) on both the Pomeroy and Weber. They all work just fine; no issues whatsoever.

[mandroid]

Would a full pickguard affect the sound any differently than an abbreviated one does?

No.. though from a player's perspective your treble F hole has a partial baffle over it,

for the sound/air waves to bounce off of, but the top still vibrates unimpeded.

[AlanN]

Consider that with the abbreviated model, you don't need to have a hole drilled into the side of your instrument (just a couple in the side of the fingerboard).

Depends. Charlie Derrington was quite firm about the bracket on this one that he crafted.

[sblock]

Depends. Charlie Derrington was quite firm about the bracket on this one that he crafted.

Suspenders and a belt!

[Austin Bob]

If it were me, I'd go for the abbreviated guard. I like the looks of these, and I have not experienced stability issues with any of them.

Thanks Sblock, your comments make sense. I guess there are two reasons why I'm hesitant to use the abbreviated version.

First, I had one put on my Gibson (attached with pins). It has now worked it's way loose, due to my tendency to press down on the guard with my right hand whilst tuning that pesky A string. I remember the very day when it came loose, and have tried to avoid that habit going forward. But it's been a bit wobbly ever since, and needs to be reglued.

Second, I just like the old school looks of the full pickguard. I feel the same way about my Les Paul. To my eyes, they just look like they are missing something without one.

I've been going back and forth in my mind about which one to get. I guess it makes sense to go ahead and get the abbreviated one. I can always go to the full version later, but it's hard to do the other way around.

[Phil Goodson]

Depends. Charlie Derrington was quite firm about the bracket on this one that he crafted.

I didn't say that you wouldn't HAVE a bracket, I said that you wouldn't NEED a bracket and screw.

[sblock]

Thanks Sblock, your comments make sense. I guess there are two reasons why I'm hesitant to use the abbreviated version.

First, I had one put on my Gibson (attached with pins). It has now worked it's way loose, due to my tendency to press down on the guard with my right hand whilst tuning that pesky A string. I remember the very day when it came loose, and have tried to avoid that habit going forward. But it's been a bit wobbly ever since, and needs to be reglued.

Second, I just like the old school looks of the full pickguard. I feel the same way about my Les Paul. To my eyes, they just look like they are missing something without one.

I've been going back and forth in my mind about which one to get. I guess it makes sense to go ahead and get the abbreviated one. I can always go to the full version later, but it's hard to do the other way around.

The first part of your comment reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to a doctor and complains "It hurts when I do this (demonstrating)!" And the doctor responds: "So, don't do that!" So no, don't push down hard on your pickguard.

Before you try "regluing" it, as you wrote, please realize that an abbreviated pickguard does NOT require any glue! Don't use glue: the friction of the pins in the holes should be enough to hold it on.

First off, if the pins are wiggling in the mounting holes, you can try bending (splaying) the mounting pins of the guard ever so slightly apart. Often, that is enough to restore the necessary friction to hold the guard on quite well.

If the mounting holes are just a tad too large for that remedy, and still leading to a bit of wiggle, you can try making a few long, thin slivers from a toothpick (use a penknife) and stuffing these into the holes, then re-inserting the abbreviated guard with its pins. That oughta do it!

And if all else fails, then take off the guard, fill up the mounting holes altogether, and redrill them to a size just a bit under the pin diameter. You can fill the holes with an intact, round toothpick, or a small dowel, plus a spot of glue.

But if you are the kinda guy who is always banging hard on the guard, for one reason or another, then perhaps you would be better served by a full-size pickguard, or even an abbreviated one with a three-point attachment (very rare, but see the photo earlier for an example)?! Anyway, if you actually prefer the looks of the full guard (I don't), then just get it, I say!

[Mandoplumb]

Have the pick guard that appeals to you, especially if you fear the one won't stay on. It's your mandolin, make it look like you want. We all are different, I prefer the full size the small one looks like a man with a boys cap on to me.

[AlanN]

I didn't say that you wouldn't HAVE a bracket, I said that you wouldn't NEED a bracket and screw.

uh...ok

My contribution to this thread was to provide an alternative stance on whether an abbreviated pickguard can/could/should be made with or without a bracket affixed to the body rim. I've seen both (more without than with).

The history of mine: I saw Aubrey Haynie play with The Nashville Mandolin Ensemble one time. He had a pickguard on his Gilchrist that just stood out in such a gorgeous way that I had to ask about it. He pointed me to Charlie Derrington. Charlie gave me the lowdown on it, and I ordered 3, one for each Gilchrist F-5 that I had at the time. We talked about the bracket, whether it was needed or not. My initial thought at the time was it was not, as the guard was so small that it was simply unnecessary. He was of the opposite approach, and was quite insistent about that. I, wisely, and for this particular piece of hardware, deferred to him.

[Astro]

Dont think it too hard. Its just a matter of what you think looks right. To me its abbreviated floating guard. The full width guard and extra points of drilled fixation do not appeal to me at all. Looks too big and clunky. I understand others feel its the classic look. I look at it without history. Just aesthetic proportions. I didnt grow up with Bill Monroe but if I did, I'd probably feel differently.

I have abbreviated guards on my Gibson and Eastman. Look great, protect the body and actually help me play better.

I push on them slightly from time to time but no sign of weakening. They were done by a master. Just below the plane of the fingerboard. I gig out regularly with both instruments in dive bars and outside decks. I am very careful but its a dangerous world for them.

If one of my guards gets loose I will have that fixed. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying it just the way I like it.

If I had a 20,000 dollar mando, I would feel the same way and do the same. I just wouldn't take it out bar hopping.

Pics on this thread: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ighlight=guard

[dhergert]

... I can always go to the full version later, but it's hard to do the other way around.

It is really about pin/screw holes and about the bracket though...

If the mandolin in question has got a non-extension fingerboard, it will probably be necessary to move the pin locations closer together, to where they are both effective in the shorter fingerboard. For a non-bracket pickguard this may mean that the pin mount points leave the pickguard a little more floppy than desirable.

Or, if the mandolin in question has got a scooped florida, the pickguard top surface should be level with the top surface of the scoop so the pick won't be hitting the pickguard all the time. This may mean that the pickguard sits at a slight angle, running high at the last frets on the fingerboard to low at the low area of the scoop. A pickguard bracket will help stabilize that angle a lot.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if a pickguard is purchased with holes pre-drilled for pins/screws, these holes may be in different locations on different pickguards. If holes need to be moved to match existing holes in the fingerboard, and if the pickguard backing plate is wood, old holes in the backing plate can be filled if desired to make them not show, but if the backing plate is plastic filling may not be effective or even possible.

Lastly, if a pickguard bracket is to be used, it may be preferred to locate the body screw below the binding instead of in the binding. Depending on the binding and the finish, one hole location may be easier to patch than another. Plastic pickguard brackets are easier to modify to allow this choice than plated metal ones.

These considerations and others may also mean slightly different pin locations depending on the pickguard. The goal is to not have to drill more holes in the fingerboard or in the mandolin body than absolutely necessary.

If the pickguard is actually being used in one way or another as a finger rest, pressure from the hand along with changes in temperature and humidity will eventually cause some looseness with pickguards whether they have a bracket or not. The bracket does help reduce that, but it's not unusual to eventually have a little movement that can be snugged up with backing plate screw, bracket screw and bracket nut settings.

For those that use pins, most of the pickguard instructions do speak of using a little glue in the fingerboard holes to reduce that movement; if desired, glued pins can still be removed with the application of a little heat from a soldering iron.

[Mark Wilson]

For a non-bracket pickguard this may mean that the pin mount points leave the pickguard a little more floppy than desirable.

I have three ebony abbreviated pickguards installed with pins and there is no flop. none

For those that use pins, most of the pickguard instructions do speak of using a little glue in the fingerboard holes to reduce that movement; if desired, glued pins can still be removed with the application of a little heat from a soldering iron.

And there's no glue. They are snug and coming off isn't happening unless you work at it

soldering iron

"Step away from the mandolin!"

[Dale Ludewig]

I always have installed the pickguard so that the pins go into the fingerboard extension support under the fingerboard. The pickguard surface is flush to the underside of the fingerboard. Scoop or no scoop, it doesn't matter. I put a little bitty block under the pickguard that is shaped so it can rest on the top, with a little felt in between. This allows for the occasional press down on the guard to not put stress on the pins. And a tiny drop of CA on the pins still allows the guard to be removed without a lot of work. That little bit of support under the pickguard doesn't affect the sound.

[Austin Bob]

I put a little bitty block under the pickguard that is shaped so it can rest on the top, with a little felt in between. This allows for the occasional press down on the guard to not put stress on the pins.

Thanks Dale, that is interesting. My Gibson F5 is a custom version sold by The Mandolin Store, and it has a chopped off F9 style fretboard. When I got the abbreviated guard put on it, I asked the local guy about gluing a block under the guard that just barely floated above the top, so if I pressed down, it would take the pressure. He was against it, thinking that anything pressing on the top would dampen the sound. But that sounds almost exactly like what you described.

[Don Grieser]

My Heiden abbreviated guard has one screw and one pin in the neck under the fretboard. Very solid.

[Dale Ludewig]

Just to be clear, that little block under the pickguard is as close to the rim as possible.

[sblock]

I want to reiterate that a properly mounted, abbreviated pickguard does not require glue to hold it in. Most guards are attached by two pins that are simply held in by friction. This is highly effective when done properly! Others can be held in by screws (Northfield and Mowry use this technique, for example). I would never recommend using a spot of glue for better retention. Instead, minor adjustments to the pin orientations (e.g., splaying them ever-so-slightly) or to the fingerboard holes (placing tiny slivers of wood inside to narrow them, if they grow too large) will achieve the desired improvement in retention. That way, you can demount the guard whenever you like! Forget the glue.

[dhergert]

Just to be clear, that little block under the pickguard is as close to the rim as possible.

I've seen a couple of the blocks under some full and abbreviated pickguards that didn't use a bracket, and wondered about volume and tone. I'm glad to hear that they don't change things in that regard. It sounds like a good alternative.