Pick direction in Jigs after a Quarter note or a Rest

[Sevelos]

There are many threads and YouTube lessons about pick direction in jigs and usually the recommendation is to pick DUD DUD. However, they don't really discuss which direction to pick when you don't have consecutive 8'th notes.
For example, let's say we have a bar in a Jig with a Quarter note and then an 8'th note. We pick the Quarter Down, but which direction is recommended for picking the 8'th note?
I noticed in MandoLessons, for example that in those cases he sometimes picks Up and sometimes Down (he doesn't explain why).

[HonketyHank]

I am not good enough yet to play jigs up to full speed and beyond. So my preference may be suspect. But for what it is worth, my strong preference it to play DUD DUD for a string of eighth notes and to play D-D D-D on a string of quarter note / eighth note pairs. I just feel that double down stroke at beats 3 and 4 produces a more 'jiggy' rhythm.

I have quite a few jigs in my 'tunes' folder and I haven't found any place yet where I change that over to D-U D-U for convenience or ease of playing.

On the other hand, I know there are highly respected players who advocate using D-U D-U just as there are many who advocate using DUD UDU for the string of eighth notes. Baron C-H may well be ambiDUDextrous.

[MichaelW]

A down stroke.

[jeho2a]

I vote for down stroke too, just to keep the picking consistent with DUD.

[foldedpath]

Usually a down stroke, but it's situational.

There may be a phrase where the following note is on an adjacent string, and it makes more sense to follow the direction of the pick as it moves to the next string, then recover to the DUD DUD pattern. You might be using articulations (ornaments) like a hammer-on or pull-off where a note is being "picked" by your left hand instead of the flatpick, which will require an adjustment to the pattern.

In general, I think a pattern like DUD DUD is useful when you're first learning to play jigs. It gets that rhythm feel into your head and hands. Once you have that rhythm pulse internalized you can play more freely, shifting to alternate picking for a tricky phrase, or throwing in ornaments that "break" the pattern. As long as you keep that rhythm pulse going, it's all that matters.

[JeffD]

I often use DUU for jigs. So a quarter note followed by an eight note doesn't really change anything.

[crisscross]

I asked myself the same question and thought, that it's more logical to use DD for the combination quarter/eighth note.
Then I saw this at Nigel Gatherer's website and changed:
http://www.nigelgatherer.com/mando/pickdir/pd9.html
But after reading the answers here, I'm completely confused...

[Beanzy]

As with many here I think I just look at which notes I want to be lighter than the main pulse & play those as upstrokes.
You could phrase the example above to go against the normal 6/8 (two beat norm) and turn it into three DU pairs, though it would be clunky if I did. You could also hornpipe it with D-DuDu. But with the same pattern in the next bar rather than a run of quavers that's unlikely to be the intention.
However I'd normally start that by playing the first crotchet quaver as a beat & up beat into the 3, D-u Duu or Dum da DumDaDa.
Or if I didn't want it to be too strong on the 2 beat feel & flow more smoothly I would do D-u dud, or Dum da diddly.
The only guiding rule is that it reall depends what's wanted in the style required.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I also vote for a down stroke, even though I don't do it all the time myself . It keeps the pattern going in your right hand and is a great way to cement that DUD DUD pattern into muscle memory. That said, an up stroke isn't the end of the world, have a down on beats 1 and 4 are the most important aspects of jig playing.

I recently made an album of old time tunes, and after rehearsing and recording those tunes, I found my jig playing had suffered a little. Good thing an Irish album is up next, that should get me straightened out again!

Thanks,
Baron

[ampyjoe]

I asked myself the same question and thought, that it's more logical to use DD for the combination quarter/eighth note.
Then I saw this at Nigel Gatherer's website and changed:
http://www.nigelgatherer.com/mando/pickdir/pd9.html
But after reading the answers here, I'm completely confused...

I just tried it, and this is what I do... mostly. I don't find that it disturbs the DUD pattern at all for when all three notes are present. Another reason I think it's good to do it this way is that tunes with this pattern (where groups of three are less common that groups of two in the same time) are often slides and played very fast. So fast, especially if for dancers, that they'd be difficult to play with DD, whereas playing DUDU with an occasional DUD is much more doable.

[James Rankine]

Marla Finish addresses this on her peghead nation course and she is quite clear that it should be a down, in other words don't break the DUD DUD pattern regardless of whether you are playing 8th notes or quarter notes or what string you are playing on. I used to do an up particularly if the next note was going onto the bass strings. I've switched to Marla's technique. The advantage of this comes out with playing variations - both melodic and varying between playing a phrase with quarter notes or all 8th notes. Having consistency in the right hand allows for smooth, on the fly, variations, and there's nobody better at that than Marla.

[Nigel Gatherer]

In my opinion it's less important whether you use an up or a down stroke than making sure you use a downstroke on the next beat (in jigs there are two beats in the bar).

The D-U DUD pattern is what I find myself using, but it makes sense to use D-D DUD; as a couple of people have said above, it can help to instil the DUD DUD pattern.

[Dagger Gordon]

Usually a down stroke, but it's situational.

There may be a phrase where the following note is on an adjacent string, and it makes more sense to follow the direction of the pick as it moves to the next string, then recover to the DUD DUD pattern. You might be using articulations (ornaments) like a hammer-on or pull-off where a note is being "picked" by your left hand instead of the flatpick, which will require an adjustment to the pattern.

In general, I think a pattern like DUD DUD is useful when you're first learning to play jigs. It gets that rhythm feel into your head and hands. Once you have that rhythm pulse internalized you can play more freely, shifting to alternate picking for a tricky phrase, or throwing in ornaments that "break" the pattern. As long as you keep that rhythm pulse going, it's all that matters.

I tend to agree. I honestly find it difficult to believe that if you are picking pretty fast, that you are going to be paying much attention to the direction of the pick. By then you shouldn't have to think about it.

Anyway there are a number of issues here, including which string the next note is on.

If you were playing tenor banjo, you might well expect to have many 'extra' notes, particularly in the form of triplets, which I think are generally admired in Irish banjo playing. I can't help but feel that the DUD DUD rule must surely be abandoned if you are going to do that. Same with mandolin really.

As I've noted before, I first heard of the DUD DUD 'rule' here on 'Mandolin Cafe, by which time I'd been playing jigs for thirty years or so. Plenty people whose playing I admire seem to think it's important, so I'm not going to argue, but I do think one should work on getting a stronger Up stroke so the question of emphasis on the Up stroke is less of an issue.