Playing Melody in Irish Sessions

[Mike Scott]

I got the Irish bug about a year ago and went into the woodshed to learn some tunes. I now have several I can play up to tempo on, but when I try to play with other instruments after a couple of notes, I sort of just freeze up. Doesn't matter if it is a slow or fast tune. At bluegrass jams this isn't an issue as you only play melody solo or with other mandolins. I have tried playing along with CDs and YouTube with the same brain freeze. Anyone else have (or had) this issue? Anyone been able to solve? If so, how?

[derbex]

Maybe try playing at a slower tempo first, there are some backing tracks that start off slow and work up, or you could use a program to slow the music down. It might get you over the hump.

[Jill McAuley]

Being able to play up to speed on your own and playing up to speed in a session are two different things I find. Once you add the new variable of other players (and the distraction of other players!) I find that the pendulum swings back a wee bit and I need to play at a slower speed than I would when playing at home (meaning seek out a slower session!). The more regularly you play in session/ensemble settings then that gap begins to close and the speed comes back. Just my experience. Here's a resource I've been enjoying as it allows you to slow down tunes to play along with and then you can incrementally increase the speed: http://wellington.session.nz/current_tunes/

[Bertram Henze]

Your awareness of the "other melodies" being played is distracting you, apparently. Accept the beat from them for timing and ignore the rest. Listen to your own playing, and let the others be your luxury metronome.

[Beanzy]

I learn the chunks not the tunes.
So my mandolinning work looks at the stock phrases and melody pieces. The same runs and turns come up over and over. The whole tune thing is a bit like an exercise in re-setting those chunks in as many ways as possible. So I just have those on the shelf waiting to drop in as I go.
But my learning of the melodies is done mostly by iPod. Drilling them into my head.
I find that once I know the tunes to whistle or 'diddly dum' along to, then they just happen on the mandolin.
If I set out to learn a whole tune I take ages to remember it. It's also easier for me to remember if I learn them in sets. They just stick better.

[mandroid]

In the US, the ITM sessions are, perhaps in Bend Too, more strictly, 'authentic' ,

than I found Pub Crawling on my Bicycle tour along the Irish west coast, years ago..

Small village pub jams were pretty laid back .. Publican supplied the Player's pints, too.



...

[foldedpath]

As an armchair diagnosis, it sounds to me like you don't actually have the tunes completely under your fingers yet.

To join with others in unison playing, you have to know each tune so well that you're on "autopilot" and not thinking about making mistakes. Your own playing can then recede into the background of your consciousness. More of your ear/brainpower can be dedicated to listening to the group's rhythm pulse and tempo, so you can lock into the group sound.

If in fact, you do have the tunes completely under your fingers and not thinking about mistakes when you play, and this is still happening, then it may just be a question of learning to train your ear to hear and participate in a unison melody group. And not specifically Irish... the same thing would apply to an OldTime jam. That's not a skill we're born with; it has to be developed. If you haven't ever played in any other unison melody group, like maybe a high school orchestra or marching band, it may just take some time to get comfortable with that process.

Keep going to sessions. Join in where you can, and sit out where you can't. You'll get there.

[catmandu2]

Right, when you get into playing with others, time is everything. Everyone becomes a 'drummer' - in that everyone is playing rhythmically - at that point, and if you haven't the tunes yet to be able to play what you know with good time, it gets a little hairy.

[liestman]

I agree, everyone is acting as a drummer and you may well being playing each tune very "straight" whereas your local session may impart more "swing" to the timing. I would suggest practicing your tunes straight and then practicing them with some swing. Or listen to the local session without playing and figure out if they tend to swing a certain tune, or emphasize the 1 and 3 or the 2 and 4 beats - and this probably depends on the specific tune. Anyway, try practicing the same tune all these different ways and you should be better prepared for what they throw at you.

[sblock]

You probably need to practice more. Hard to hear, but true. Try playing with a backing track, like Garage Band, or alongside a recording. Get used to hearing more than just yourself playing. It will come.

[Mike Scott]

Thank you all very much for your comments, suggestions and advice. I think I need to clarify my OP. I am old. I started this mandolin journey almost 9 years ago. It has been a love hate relationship from the get go. I have never enjoyed playing the mandolin in bluegrass jams because most of the time you're just chopping along. I have always liked playing notes better. That may have been the impetus to try ITM plus I enjoy listening to it. At one point I bought a mid priced Anglo concertina took some lessons and enjoyed playing it a lot. One day it occurred to me that I would never be able to play it up to tempo before I return to dust.....I have only gone to slow sessions with the mandolin. I noted at the last one the aforementioned problem. As an example, I have been playing John Ryan's Polka (a really easy tune) two or three times a day for about 5 years. Even at the slow session I'm good for about 3 notes before brain freeze sets in. The session leader says play it alone for us. I do so and am told I am OK. Then as a group we start in and 3 notes in, I'm done. Last night I thought I would try it with a YouTube track-same thing. Then I tried Ashoken Farewell with a guitar version. I figured it was slow and I've been playing it 8+ years. About a third of the way through I'm done. Very frustrating.

So, I guess I am a no talent hack. I just purchased a very superb mandolin, but to be honest, I am thinking of blowing it out along with my A4, just keeping the beater for "just in case". Just play guitar for my own pleasure and maybe for accompanyment at ITM sessions and call it good. That's about where I'm at. I was curious if my issue is a common one or not. Just didn't want to bare my sole in the original post......

[sblock]

Well, I am more optimistic than you about this, and I firmly believe that you can get there with practice. If you are physically capable of playing the tune up to normal tempo in a given setting -- in this case, playing at home alone -- then you are fully capable of LEARNING to play the very same tune, at the very same tempo, with other musicians! What you describe as "brain freeze" is in your head, not in your arms and hands. This is not about coordination and muscle speed. We already know from what you've written that you have the physical capability, even at your age (hey, I didn't start until my 50's). This is about psychology, and not getting thrown off by the sounds of the other musicians, or the pressure of performance in the setting, and so on. You can learn to cope with that. Realize that it's in your head, and you will be on the path to dealing with it. Practice relentlessly, and play with recordings, backing tracks, and other people as often as you can. Hang in there, because YOU WILL GET THERE!!

[Mike Scott]

I guess you are most likely correct except I am a no talent hack. I will put the mandos away for a couple of days and then redouble my efforts trying out the slow tune link provided by Jill. Tonight is the regular session- I'm taking a guitar and will hopefully be able to keep up.......

[RickPick]

I have to agree with sblock. You just need to keep at it. I started fiddle and mandolin in my mid-sixties, and every day, I kick myself for not starting at 5 years old. But I didn't, and I'm stuck with what I've got, even though it is far short of what I'd like it to be. I experience many of the same problems you outline when playing in sessions, although in my case, it is usually more clear that I'm just way too slow for the group. I keep hoping to run into a slower group, but none has landed in my lap. So I keep playing a lot by myself (which probably reinforces my slow playing, as my preferred pace of EVERYTHING -- driving, walking, talking, chewing gum.... -- is slow), but I force myself to attend bluegrass and ITM sessions only because I believe that is the only way I will ever have a chance of being able to feel joyful when I play with others. Mostly, I just feel like an impostor who should just be listening, not playing along. But the groups are generous, and no one has ever asked me to stay home and wash my hair on the night's they meet. The great thing about musicians is that at some time, they've all been where you are.

[Paul Busman]

Keep at it, get to as many sessions as you can. If necessary, quietly play chords, adding in bits of the melody as they come to you. I do that frequently when they play a tune I don't know.
It's lousy posture, but try bending over with your ear close to your mandolin. It'll help you focus on YOUR sound and drown out the background sound a bit.
I agree that playing along with videos may help too. Don't quit-- the rewards are well worth the effort.

[Randi Gormley]

I don't know how many people attend the session you're at, but if it's anything like the sessions I've been at (minus the slow/beginner session we run every Monday), there's so much noise going on that an individual mistake isn't actually heard. Your messing up or freezing up may not even be noticed except by you. Just a thought. Another thought is, if you start to get lost, just vamp a bit on the A string (or play a G); you'd be surprised how often that works. I've certainly been playing along and gotten distracted and lost the melody for a few beats -- nobody really notices. I just pick it up the next time around. Another thing you can try is closing your eyes. At least for me, it helps me to separate out the beat from the background distraction (or the third guitar fingerpicking the wrong chord). Just some thoughts.

[Mandoplumb]

No one has asked but do you use a metronome when you practice, if so do you play through even if you flub a note or play a wrong note or do you wait for the beat and then start back. A jam doesn't wait for you to regroup so you shouldn't even in practice. Also just for the record there are many things you can do in a bluegrass jam or even a band than pop chords like Mr Monroe--- gotta go here comes the bluegrass police.

[Jim Garber]

I agree with Randi and sblock and others — it sounds like you are perfectly capable of playing the tunes that you know but don't want to play if you make mistakes. The reality is that even the best players will make mistakes and no one else beside the player will notice. Also, I would not just practice at home until you are perfect on a tune— I would consider the jam to be your practice in playing at the jam. The more you play with others the better you will get in blending in. Keep at it. And stop that talk about being a hack. That is complete BS. Stick to it and it will get easier and better. I guarantee!

[Mike Scott]

I probably shouldn't, but I will weigh in one more time. My issue is not making (a) mistake or many mistakes. Well that's always an issue, but when that happens I continue plugging along. The issue is (even before I get to the mistake phase) I start off OK and then just plain freeze up and forget where I am, where I am going. No one cares probably because no one can even hear me amongst all the other instruments. All this is at slow, beginner sessions. I did go to a full speed session last night, but took a guitar-no issue there.

Again, my question is- is this freezing up common?

Once again, thanks for all comments suggestions and advise!

[Mandoplumb]

Don't know how common freezing up is, it happens. I do know that it's self fulling, if you think you will freeze up chances are pretty good yup will. Keep plugging, keep trying, keep telling yourself you can and you will.

[Jim Garber]

If you learn from tab or notation then take your written notes with you for the tunes you know. Even if you preparing by ear, maybe jot down some notes about what frets/fingers you start parts of tunes.

[BJ O'Day]

Again, my question is- is this freezing up common?

Happens to me quite often. I'm sure it's nervousness. Sometimes it is tunes I can play well at near session speed. But I get a little worried about flubbing up and just stop, it's like my right hand freezes.

I have found it better when there is a strong lead player. I try to tune into just the lead and ignore the others. This helps quite a bit for me.
BJ

[RickPick]

Freezing up doesn't happen to me, but many other "psychological" things do when I play with a group (or for an audience). But there's only one ultimate solution, and that's for you to break through this barrier. That's why there are courses on public speaking, so folks can "get over" what freaks them out about talking to an audience. Some performers probably never totally get over some version of stage fright, but the only thing that will get them past its most debilitating form is to perform in front of an audience. That's why kids' piano and violin lessons usually have a recital component. It is a common psychological barrier students need to learn to break through. Your hurdle is more specialized, but you'll get over it. Just like everyone (who wants to) finally figures out how to ride a bike.

[lonestar_shawn]

I've seen people who are decent players but they have some timing issues where they add extra beats and things like that. It could be a situation where you can play the melody along with a metronome and do ok, but maybe there is an extra beat you are adding or something off with the timing. Then when you try to play it with others (live or recording) you notice you are off and freeze up. If you don't already do it, record yourself playing along with the backing track and make sure you've got the tune down correctly.

The other thing that happened to me when I started was that I learned a set arrangement, and I could only play that arrangement from the beginning. If I missed a beat I had to wait for the chord changes to come back around again so I could start over. Eventually I had to learn how to miss a note or two and then pick back up again. Something similar may be happening to you.

[Bertram Henze]

I tend to go with the "timing" chorus, by now. Many starting out alone and playing tunes in their own private timezone will fall apart in the suddely rigid timing of other players.
Get a metronome and get used to playing your music along with that. You'll feel the wonders of temporal delusion at first, at a much lower price than a DeLorean.