Makers getting Top Dollar

[Mandoborg]

Shellhammer you hit the nail right on the head !!! I've seen instruments by two of the ' big names' on that list, one of each, and they were dogs IMO. One the guy waited almost 7 years to get ! I also chuckle when I see a certain name on there who was charging like 18K + after the first 5 instruments, and folks lined up. I'm all for it if you can get it. How do you tell somebody there new 15K mandolin they waited 5 years for doesn't really sound that good ??!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUGTTuoRPs

[fscotte]

How do you tell somebody there new 15K mandolin they waited 5 years for doesn't really sound that good ??!!

Tell em to wait another 5 years.

My '99 Gibson A5L was just that dog when new. Today I can say that it sounds as good as the best of em.

What they will always have is a Picasso, or a Rembrandt. Nice pictures, and I've seen better, but still... it's a Picasso. When Gilchrist stops making, when Kemnitzer stops, when Macrostie stops, there taint no more son.

[barry]

Good call on Paganoni... I can find records at the $11,500 and $12,000 level. I'll include him in the deceased section.

On RL Givens... I'm seeing only a few that are asking above 10K in the market, and don't see verifiable records of sales above 10K. Most of what's available are A styles, and they are in the 2K-6K range.

Andrew Mowry is certainly on the bubble. His F5 retails for $8,200, Mandola $9,200, Octave is $11,000... but those are recent increases. For an F, he's not crossed the 10K threshold yet, where others on the list have with regularity. I think he'll be there soon, given the artists that are using his instruments, and the records they are making.

I would also say Fletcher Brock is also on the bubble. His prices are in line with Mowry.

You can move John Paganoni back out of the "deceased section". I just received an email from him. I'm happy to report that he is alive and well. He is just not currently building mandolins.

[kjbllc]

some things become collector items, and get priced beyond there playing qualities. not that they are not top of the line but a bonus price gets added to. it. I know violins, of living makers can bring more money than a new one that they make.

[JeffD]

For many of them the situation is, (I surmise), that were they to charge less their backlog would be excessive and the wait time would be extreme. Other choices to meet the demand would be short cuts that compromise on quality (not an option), or more automation in the process, which also can impact quality, or hiring on people to do the routine tasks, which they likely already do to some extent.

Their instruments are of such quality and sought after properties that the price is what slows down the demand so they can work at a human pace and meet demand without compromise to quality.

[JeffD]

There are likely more than a few first rate luthiers creating amazing quality instruments, struggling with how to meet the demand. Likely in time they will reach a point where they raise their prices in order to reduce wait time.

[dschonbrun]

Updated again

John Monteleone - $45,000
Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
Bill Collings (MF5V Custom) - $11,000 - 13,000
Corrado Giacomel J5 - $12,500
Jonathan McLanahan - $11,000 - 14,000
A. L. Smart - $9,500 - 15,000
Will Kimble $9,000 - 11,000

And here's a short list of maker's that are no longer building (perhaps deceased), but continue to bring high prices. Again, happy to get input here from others.

Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000
Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
Paganoni - $12,000-15,000

[dschonbrun]

I agree that price on it's own does not equate to build quality or sonic performance. Sometimes you can find an instrument from a maker early in their career, and believing it will be great... buy before their prices skyrocket.

I purchased my Northfield having compared earlier Artist Series instruments to much more expensive samples from other makers (both modern and old), and simply prefer the qualities of the NF to my ear, and the feel to my hands. Knowing that Mike Marshall, Mike Kemnitzer, Adam Steffey, and Emory Lester all contributed to the development in some way... made me feel like it was a sound investment.

For those who walk into a shop and "only want the best" (and can afford it) - something scarce and perceived as desirable, getting a top maker's instrument at a top price is the way to go. That wasn't my route...

I wanted to build the list more to share with others and provide some perspective, but it's by no means an endorsement of any one particular maker... simply a reflection of the current market.

Thanks to everyone who has shown interest and contributed to the list. Love this community.

[Spruce]

No one is stopping anyone from asking a high price for their mando builds.

Keep in mind that the current "high" prices paid for instruments by certain makers were instituted by us, and not by the makers...

You can move John Paganoni back out of the "deceased section". I just received an email from him. I'm happy to report that he is alive and well. He is just not currently building mandolins.

Didn't Mark Twain build some mandos back in the day?

[Charles E.]

You could add Wayne Henderson to that list and possibly Paul Duff.

[Bill Snyder]

So why wasn't Michael Lewis added to the list? I pointed him out in one of the first few posts.

[dschonbrun]

Hey Bill, I did some research and Michael's price for an F5 is $9,000. He does list an "Archive Loar" model for $15,000 but I'm not able to find samples in the market to verify sales. He does get over 10K for guitars... but this list was meant to focus on that level for Mandolin family instruments. I would put him in the same group as Mowry and Brock... right on the bubble.

[dschonbrun]

Paul Duff's A4 is $5,000 and F5 is $9,000... he's another one on the bubble. I love his work, but am trying to be consistent here.

Wayne Henderson... agree, I see sales of $10,000 - $14,000 for recent F5's. I'll add him to the next list.

[Ron McMillan]

All of which only makes me even more convinced that one of the screaming bargains in the market must be Tom Ellis's A5 at about $6k. The strap-hanger fashion scroll skews the market to an astonishing degree.

[Cornelius Morris]

Updated again

John Monteleone - $45,000
Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
Bill Collings (MF5V Custom) - $11,000 - 13,000
Corrado Giacomel J5 - $12,500
Jonathan McLanahan - $11,000 - 14,000
A. L. Smart - $9,500 - 15,000
Will Kimble $9,000 - 11,000

And here's a short list of maker's that are no longer building (perhaps deceased), but continue to bring high prices. Again, happy to get input here from others.

Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000
Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
Paganoni - $12,000-15,000

So a new Jamie Wiens (whose #35 I own; http://www.mandolinarchive.com/wiens/serial/35) is a pretty good bargain at these prices: http://wiensmandolins.com/

[Ivan Kelsall]

I have to agree 100 % with Ron McMillan. Most of us would agree that a good "A" style can sound as good as an equivalent "F" style. I'm fortunate enough to own an Ellis "A" style which i'd put up against any mandolin on the planet in the 'tone stakes'.

I simply can not believe that a Gil. or a Dude. or a Monte etc. can be worth 5 x the price for the 'sound' produced. I am NOT saying that they are not superb mandolins (Chris Thile's Dude. is one of the finest sounding mandolins i've heard to date),but so is my Ellis !.

It's not for me to argue about builder's pricing policies,if you want a new Gil. / Dude. / Monte. etc,you pay the asking price or,buy 'used'. Having said that,wasn't it the case of owners selling their 'used' Gils. at much higher prices than Steve Gilchrist was selling them for 'new', that caused SG to raise his prices ?. I can see his point !,
Ivan

[Chris Daniels]

Rolfe Gerhardt lists a new Phoenix Ultra at $10,500. And that's without one o' them fancy strap holders.

C.

[HoGo]

Whenever I see such list I must think about my "hero" builders and their contribution and would not just make a list with money as the main factor...
For me there is the first row of makers that consists of Gilchrist, Kemnitzer (Nuggett) and Monteleone these are true legends because their long time hard work and consistent results and even though I may not like everything they did, they doubtlessly deserve being the "top crop" and the prices of their work reflect this.
Then there is category of makers whose prices sky-rocketed up there partly due to 'big name' endorsee like Thile, Grisman, Steffey, Benson etc. (Dudenbostel, Giacomel, McLanahan, perhaps Daley before he quit)
Then there is category of the makers without very noticeable player connection who barely got over the 10k mark or close (like McRostie, Heiden, Collings, Ellis, Smart, Kimble, Lewis, etc. or Henderson -his guitars instead of endorsee drive the prices of mandolins up)
And then there is category of Makers who just started really high (Wiens comes to mind with his campaign, or the discussed Stadler at Carter's).
And then there is whole lot of other equally great builders who would deserve as much praise as the above mentioned but they just don't charge the price...

[red7flag]

I feel blessed to have played most on that list. I can say that when I have blind A/Bed some of them, my result changed the next day when in a different playing mood. Past a certain point, I feel that how a person compares two mandolin is more a matter personal taste and picking style. Once in a while I have played an instrument that just had IT. What ever IT is. I will list them. One (of many played) Loar, one Red Diamond, Brentrup H4, two Gils one a mandola (of many played), one Stanley, one Sobell. These were instruments that simply glistened when played, even by me.

[jesserules]

It's great to see gifted, hardworking craftspeople rewarded for the years of study and experience and dedication they put into the works of art they produce.

[McIrish]

I've played a few of the big ticket builds. Some were good and some were great. But in the end, tonality is a pretty individual sort of thing. We all hear slightly different and have differing tastes on what constitutes a good sound. When I was looking at mandolins to buy last year, I played everything I could get my hands on while touring. I didn't end up with anything over $10k, but it really was good to compare and finally pick the one that sounded like "I" wanted a mandolin to sound. I'm very happy with what I have but I'd still plan on playing everything I find; just to know what the tonal possibilities are. I honestly don't think anything is going to sound significantly better than what I have but it's fun to window shop anyway. (I'm sure my wife would not agree with that)

[Mandobar]

Rolfe Gerhardt lists a new Phoenix Ultra at $10,500. And that's without one o' them fancy strap holders.

C.

Rolf is no longer building. His former apprentice has taken over Phoenix. That said, he'd bend the prices quite a bit if you bought directly from him. So, asking and selling are a different thing. Anyone can list their prices at 12k or 20k, but how many are really pocketing those amounts?

[dschonbrun]

Looks like I need to add Daley and Sobell to the 2nd part of the list. Good call outs.

[RJMFry]

Looks like I need to add Daley and Sobell to the 2nd part of the list. Good call outs.

Actually, Stefan is still building mandolins (and I'm pretty sure he's not dead [eek!]). I'm on the docket for a mandolin from him come August. He has started focusing more on his guitars, but he still builds mandolins every now and again. It's just his larger mando-family instruments that have been missing as of late, though I'm hoping to high heaven that I can convince him to take a swing at another bouzouki.

[dhergert]

As an outsider (from being able to afford this price group) I'd observe that there are a lot of important names that are "on the bubble", plus there are questions about actual price verification with some of the names that are actually on the list...

As such, would it be worth it to add another category that would include the names that are say, over $7.5K but under $10K?

Or, is there magic to the $10K number? (I know you have to set somewhere to start.)