Buying a Gibson Loar

[woodwizard]

Big bucks I know 165K range ... At this stage in my life I can actually afford it... just convincing the other half it is a good investment ... as I approach the retirement age thinking what the heck,
maybe go for it.... Have any of you Loar owners any advise? Most recently I have been to Carrter and Gruhns checking some out.

[DataNick]

Read this thread So what is the real value of a Loar in today's world...lot's of goods observations by knowledgeable folks regarding pricing, investment value...Darryl Wolfe has some really good observations...this read is worth the homework on your question.

[woodwizard]

I really liked this one at Gruhn's... Just not sure yet if I want to make this big leap $$$ yet. Leaning toward chickening out for now with the thought in the back of my mind big time. I know it's an investment and there is a pretty good chance of actually not losing money on a deal. My wife took this pic upstairs at Gruhn's. It was so awesome and really enjoyed trying it out as well as viewing all the beautiful instruments up there.

[Gary Hedrick]

PM me I know of some that are in the shadows...

[Timbofood]

Don't buy for an investment! It's like diamonds, you are the last guy in the line, everyone along the line has had to make something on it. By the time you might realize any (real) return you'll be dead.
Buy it because you simply must have it, it's a passion buy not, a sound financial investment. And look at how the market for them has dropped in the last ten years.
All the arguments aside, if I had the money and one truly spoke to me? Maybe. But, it would just about have to tie my shoes to make me jump.
Now, don't tell me anything else about it until you bring it over for me to have a few minutes with!
Have a swell weekend!

[AlanN]

veni, vidi, vici

what timbo said....

[usqebach]

Any time you consider something this special and unique an "investment," backwards plan how you are going to sell it.

Plan on having some other guy show up and hand you a check for nearly 200k?

Let a dealer consign it? That's about a 20% hit off the top, and if your "investment" has gained 50% in value, that's like 60% of your profit gone.

These specialty investments are only such for people who will never need the liquidity, and are probably just looking for something to pass along without Uncle Sam getting involved (though estate tax situation is much better for all these days).

If it is something you will spend the rest of your life enjoying, good for you! But I'd get really squeamish if you were counting on the ability to monetize it in short order to fund your retirement.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Has any of you ever heard of a mando geek regretting the purchase of a Loar F5?

[Spruce]

Has any of you ever heard of a mando geek regretting the purchase of a Loar F5?

I don't know who it is, but a big "yes", for sure...
I don't want to go into details, but know of one that was responsible for at least a 50-60K bath...

[colorado_al]

Holy !!!! The sales tax alone on that is over $15,000! If I had $180k cash to spend, I'd retire and I would buy the best sounding Dudenbostel, Nugget, Gilchrist, etc, that I could find for $25k or less, and a beach house in Mexico where I could play it. No way, no how would I spend that kind of money on a single mandolin.

[Mike Snyder]

Your Goldrush is everything a Gibson should be. Follow your dream, but know that you have a "lifetime" instrument in hand. If you get the Loar I hope you'd let an old-time hack like me play it a little.

[mrmando]

Has any of you ever heard of a mando geek regretting the purchase of a Loar F5?

I didn't regret the first twelve. The thirteenth one, however ...

[fscotte]

First, music and making music never falls out of favor, even in hard times. If I had no money and lost everything tomorrow, I'd still want to pick. That drive never goes away for any of us. Making music is an investment with a gauranteed return.

Secondly, Loars will never drop their "value". They will ALWAYS be desirable. Hard times may decrease their monetary value for a time, but they will ALWAYS come back. You just never know when or how. So there is always a risk. The value of a Loar is owning a one of a kind instrument that will ALWAYS be older or more vintage than any other F5 mandolin. That will never change.

Third, if soley for investing, then you need to diversify. And by that I mean buying 7-8 highly desirable non-Loars. Look for older Nuggets, Gils, Montes, etc... These will always hold value and desirability.

So when considering a Loar, consider it only for its value as a unique instrument, not for its monetary worth.

[bigskygirl]

Yeah, forget the investment part, I think that you'd like to own one and you're in a position to do so. The Loars will always be valued by players/collectors and while the price goes up and down it will mostly go up as there are fewer and fewer available.

If you can swing it without mortgaging the farm I say go for it and enjoy. Get it while you can still enjoy it, if you have it for the next 20 years you will have enjoyed playing it and it will surely go up in value, you can leave it to your heirs or sell it then.

[Willie Poole]

I know two people that bought Loars and regretted it but that was quite a few years ago when they didn`t know very much about a proper set up.....But I do know that one of them made quite a nice profit when he sold it after keeping it for about 6 years but I don`t think he bought it as an investment, he was a pretty darn good picker.......

Willie

[almeriastrings]

Has any of you ever heard of a mando geek regretting the purchase of a Loar F5?

Yes. I know of one person who did about 5 years ago and after 18 months, sold it (at a substantial loss) and found happiness in a well-known modern builder's instrument.

I also had one myself, but it was a long time ago, before I was as much into mandolins as I am these days. I was more into vintage Martin's at the time. While I don't regret buying it (I got it a decent price) I also don't regret selling it either (fortunately came out ahead on that one), as I prefer my Ellis by quite a margin.

[dschonbrun]

Having the money to buy the instrument isn't enough. As with other great works, we become a steward for it during our lifetime. The question I'd ask is this: will you be a great steward? Insuring a Loar can cost 10K/year. Having work done to modernize the 1923-24 instrument for play can easily cost 6-8K (new radiused fingerboard, new bridge, adjusted neck profile, modern tuners, new nut, revoicing/graduation, thin coat of varnish, potential neck reset) and there are only a few folks I would entrust it to.

One way to shepherd a Loar, is to loan it to a young highly talented player, pay the annual insurance costs on their behalf, and give them a stipend so they don't need to get an instrument sponsor.

If the instrument is played regularly, in public, and on recordings, that will maximize the potential future value.

If you want to buy it to play it daily, and because you love the sound and feel... great, do it. But, please don't buy it and put it away in a closet, hoping that it will increase in value enough to offset your investment and taxes. It just doesn't work that way.

D

[DataNick]

...Having work done to modernize the 1923-24 instrument for play can easily cost 6-8K (new radiused fingerboard, new bridge, adjusted neck profile, modern tuners, new nut, revoicing/graduation, thin coat of varnish, potential neck reset) and there are only a few folks I would entrust it to...

I'm not being argumentative here, I'm just trying to understand your logic.

Why in the world would a Loar, being of the best or highly superior tonal qualities,
need re-voicing/re-graduation, or another coat of varnish?...I'm not following this line of reasoning...

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Woodwizard - "Has any of you ever heard of a mando geek regretting the purchase of a Loar F5 ?." Well,it seems like a few folk on here do. I don't - but,i know of one well known player who's side lined his own Lloyd Loar in favour of his Gilchrist - Ronnie McCoury.

I understand the principle of buying as an investment,but,that's only fine if the instrument is at a pretty low price. Right now,'Loars' seem to be fetching as much as they ever did - the 'good' ones that is,& some are 'gooder' than others so it would seem from what i've read. Also,you have to consider how much of any profit that you might make,will go to the tax man. I personally know one Cafe member who once owned a Loar & on selling it had to fork out quite a bit of his 'profit' in tax.

I'd never buy purely as an investment,unless i was pretty young & would live to see the 'whatever' become a profitable item. These days with a mandolin,it's all about 'how much will i enjoy it' & by that i mean the ownership as well as my enjoyment in playing it. Yes,i would like a ''top of the tree'' instrument,but then i sit back & remember that i already own one,my superb Ellis "A" style, & i'd add that i enjoy my Weber & Lebeda equally as much.

If the Loar really appeals to you more than any other mandolin you've ever payed,buy it & enjoy it for what is,a musical instrument - not as an investment. Somehow that belittles the instrument itself IMHO,
Ivan

[RichardF]

I've followed this thread with interest and in my opinion, and others are available, it's about love and who can explain that?
If you set up a meet/date with the Loar and it says, "You are the one I've been waiting for. It's been nearly a hundred years but here you are. Let's make music!" and the feeling is mutual. (Assuming you're not out of your financial league) Then go for it!
If it's not love, buy a safe high yield bond.
Avoid the heartache. Keep looking for the the one with whom you can have a playing love affair.

[AlanN]

I'm not being argumentative here, I'm just trying to understand your logic.

Why in the world would a Loar, being of the best or highly superior tonal qualities,
need re-voicing/re-graduation, or another coat of varnish?...I'm not following this line of reasoning...

Nor am I. If the tuners or other hardware are broken/don't work right, then replace to make the instrument usable. But re-grad and similar things? wth. I know of a couple of owners who have replaced fingerboards (keeping the original, of course) due to documented intonation/fret spacing issues, but that's it.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I know i'd be taking more than a sideways glance at this one :- http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/107350#107350 & there's a stunning, brand new Gilchrist for sale in the ads. right now - i'd possibly buy both (if i weren't broke),
Ivan

[Elb2000]

If you can afford it, and will play and enjoy the F5, buy it now before it is too late. Your music and stories will be great. I know many people who have more dollars invested in cabins or boats that they never use. You only live once.

[Bernie Daniel]

Having the money to buy the instrument isn't enough. As with other great works, we become a steward for it during our lifetime. The question I'd ask is this: will you be a great steward? Insuring a Loar can cost 10K/year. Having work done to modernize the 1923-24 instrument for play can easily cost 6-8K (new radiused fingerboard, new bridge, adjusted neck profile, modern tuners, new nut, revoicing/graduation, thin coat of varnish, potential neck reset) and there are only a few folks I would entrust it to.

One way to shepherd a Loar, is to loan it to a young highly talented player, pay the annual insurance costs on their behalf, and give them a stipend so they don't need to get an instrument sponsor.

If the instrument is played regularly, in public, and on recordings, that will maximize the potential future value.

If you want to buy it to play it daily, and because you love the sound and feel... great, do it. But, please don't buy it and put it away in a closet, hoping that it will increase in value enough to offset your investment and taxes. It just doesn't work that way.

D

Personally I think this "caretaker"concept has run its course -- for me at least It is a musical instrument and if you buy it then you OWN it and you can do as you wish with it. I don't recommend using a fire poker on your Loar by any means -- treat them with respect of course (why wouldn't you?). But by all means do as you wish with it and get all the enjoyment from your investment you can. Worrying about "preserving history" should not dominate your thinking --IMO.

Eventually, even if the earth is not hit by a asteroid again and survives long enough most ancient instruments will be lost through time and attrition (e.g., accidents) anyway.

Revoice it? Well that would destroy at least half of its monetary value I would guess? So there goes your investment -- and then you really HAVE wreaked a classic!

And give it to someone else to play and then also pay the person to play it? Maybe it is just me but I can't see the value in that scheme. Each to their own however.......

[Rush Burkhardt]

Beauty, MAS, investment, sound, sentimentality, too much cash...seems there are lots of reasons to buy a Gibson Loar. I've flirted with the idea myself when times were good. After reading your OP, Mike, and the other MC commentaries, here's my thought FWIW. I would consider (haven't played it myself) Loar #73641, at Carter's. #1 Not pristine to start with, so play it; #2 Not close to the top of the market, so not likely to lose value;#3 Looking at it, with it's wear, it's a little like me: Rid' hard and put up wet!; #4 Must have a lot of stories in it that I could play out; #5 Is a modest way to move into that tier of mandolindom; #6 Think of how wise your wife would think you!