Questions about jams and jamming

[farmerjones]

If I were a stranger in a strange land, I'd find a guitar shop or musical instrument shop. Especially one's that give lessons. Many have bulletin boards, back by the restrooms. But it's tuff in some areas. Musician's either teach or gig, and don't have leisure time. And really, I wouldn't want to jam with either a teach that can't turn it off, or a pro that's only into his or her own thing. Save it up for Summertime festivals, and make plans to attend several. Save it up and go for a week down to Mountain View, Arkansas. Guaranteed, you'll jam you're rear-end off!

[EdHanrahan]

... Many have bulletin boards, back by the restrooms...

... where you might post your note: "Enthusiastic newbie looking for acoustic jam, or maybe start one. etc..." No real reason to limit folks' thinking by specifying that you play mandolin - it's all good!

[FatBear]

LOL, well, I don't know many mandolin players who play chop chords at home alone, unless they're just working on their technique. Playing backup/rhythm is part of the dues you have to pay, though, when playing with others.

Oh, of course. I didn't mean to imply that I'm a primadonna who will only play lead! I'm just saying that's about all I know because I've only ever played here at home and by (not with) myself.

5 years should have been plenty of time to get hundreds of tunes in your head, if you had focused on one genre.

So spreading across more than one genre is what's limiting me? I only wish. I was 55 when I started and had health problems which left my brain fogged up for months at a time, sometimes. If it is a reasonable expectation that I should be able to learn hundreds of songs in five years, then I'll have to give serious thought to selling my mandolin and going back to painting and stone carving for my creative outlets. Or just stick to playing in my living room, which I do enjoy.

Playing multiple styles is just fine, as long as you're playing alone. But when you get out with others, they're generally going to be playing one specific genre. You'll need to decide which one appeals to you the most, and start to put your attention there. I think Old-Time is a great choice. So many wonderful tunes, and such good music without all the need for crazy levels of showing off. If you like Old-Time, go for it! Fiddle tunes will start to build in your repertoire pretty quickly.

I can see the sense in that. So is there a definition of "old time"? Like music from before a certain date, or a list of songs, or is it more of a style? Some are obvious, some I wonder about. (I'd actually like to hear The Minstrel Boy with someone playing melody and someone else playing the chords...)

[FatBear]

... where you might post your note: "Enthusiastic newbie looking for acoustic jam, or maybe start one. etc..." No real reason to limit folks' thinking by specifying that you play mandolin - it's all good!

I will keep this in mind. There are two music stores, two doors apart in our town. One has lesson rooms and the whole thing, but mostly seems focused on kids and teens. The other is mostly a small guitar store. I've talked to one of their employees who I felt comfortable with. Maybe I'll talk to him about this.

There's a Guitar Center in the next town over, but you should have heard the comments when a guy took one of the few mandolins they had for sale into one of the glass rooms to try it out. Like, what in the world did he think he was doing, tying up a glass room to try out a mandolin?

[FatBear]

If I were a stranger in a strange land,

I'm an Oregonian in southern CA, which definitely qualifies!

I'd find a guitar shop or musical instrument shop. Especially one's that give lessons. Many have bulletin boards, back by the restrooms. But it's tuff in some areas. Musician's either teach or gig, and don't have leisure time. And really, I wouldn't want to jam with either a teach that can't turn it off, or a pro that's only into his or her own thing. Save it up for Summertime festivals, and make plans to attend several. Save it up and go for a week down to Mountain View, Arkansas. Guaranteed, you'll jam you're rear-end off!

Between health issues and being really tired of traveling, I'm afraid I'll be sticking closer to home. I'll look around for those boards. And I'll use the links that Tobin supplied, earlier.

Thanks.

[FatBear]

You might find something in these links:
http://www.socalbluegrass.org/
http://www.s-w-b-a.com/
https://www.meetup.com/bluegrass-125/

Struck out. San Diego county is apparently south of southern California and southwest of the southwestern US. I have noticed this before in other subject areas, too.

But thank you for the list. It gives me ideas on how to think about searching.

[Steve Sorensen]

THIS is (eventually) the purpose of jamming --

[Tobin]

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear that was Michael Cleveland playing mandolin. Does he play mandolin?!

[fifths]

San Diego area jam:
7:00PM - 9:00PM SAN DIEGO OLD TIME FIDDLERS JAM
First & Third Thursday
Boll Weevil Restaurant (Clairemont Mesa)
9330 Clairemont Mesa Blvd., San Diego, CA
858- 571-6225

From. https://folkworks.org/folk-happening...music-calendar

[Jess L.]

THIS is (eventually) the purpose of jamming --

Or this... different genre:


(or direct link)

... is there a definition of "old time"? Like music from before a certain date, or a list of songs, or is it more of a style?

More of a style, I'd say.

2nd video is an example of oldtime, no "breaks" or solos, everyone just plays all the time... except for when one of the fiddlers got up to dance!

[Tobin]

Oh, of course. I didn't mean to imply that I'm a primadonna who will only play lead! I'm just saying that's about all I know because I've only ever played here at home and by (not with) myself.

Yeah, I know what you meant, and it wasn't my intention to imply that you only wanted to play lead. I guess my point was that people who play only by themselves at home never really learn the skills required to play in a group. And those skills are huge, in terms of being a 'complete' musician. The group dynamics of a jam require a learning curve, but it really adds exponentially to one's musical ability. Not to mention the enjoyment of playing music. Once you get hooked on playing music with others, it's addictive and becomes somewhat boring to play alone.

So spreading across more than one genre is what's limiting me? I only wish. I was 55 when I started and had health problems which left my brain fogged up for months at a time, sometimes. If it is a reasonable expectation that I should be able to learn hundreds of songs in five years, then I'll have to give serious thought to selling my mandolin and going back to painting and stone carving for my creative outlets. Or just stick to playing in my living room, which I do enjoy.

Oh, come now, there's no need for that! Learning hundreds of tunes doesn't mean memorizing hundreds of intricate pages of notation or tabs, and having every single note memorized. It just means being familiar with the tunes after hearing them so many times, and being able to follow the chord progressions and basic melody lines. Once you get the hang of picking up tunes by ear, they become easier to learn.

Bluegrass, especially, rarely requires you to actually know the melody (although it is recommended to base it on the melody). Improvising a break over the chord progression can be whatever you want it to be, and that's the fun of playing bluegrass breaks. In fact, I'd say that a good portion of bluegrass jamming is done by people who don't even know the tune. One or two people in the circle may truly know it (sometimes only the person who started it may know it), and as long as they can get it started and carry it through a couple of times, the others in the circle are expected to get the hang of it pretty quickly and then improvise when they get the nod. It takes quite a bit of on-your-feet thinking, and the ability to learn by ear, rather than rote memorization.

I can see the sense in that. So is there a definition of "old time"? Like music from before a certain date, or a list of songs, or is it more of a style? Some are obvious, some I wonder about. (I'd actually like to hear The Minstrel Boy with someone playing melody and someone else playing the chords...)

Heh, well, no, there's no official definition of Old-Time. Folks start arguing when they try to define it. There are lots of different styles of music that fall under that heading, like Round Peak style, or Missouri style, or even Texas style fiddling. Old-Time music is just a general category that includes lots of regional playing styles and older music that pre-dates the commercial styles of music like country, bluegrass, etc. It was what people played in their homes, or at local barn dances. It's heavy on fiddle tunes. Some will argue that Old-Time music is really just for fiddles and banjos (usually clawhammer or two-finger banjo, not modern Scruggs-style three-finger banjo). But Old-Time has always included other instruments that rural folks would have had, like mountain dulcimers, guitars, even mandolins and basses.

I like Old-Time because of the fiddle tune aspect. Some OT music is songs with words, but the spirit of OT is in the fiddle tunes. Take a look at the "What's your new fiddle tune?" thread in the Old-Time forum for hundreds and hundreds of examples. Getting an OT jam going, where folks can really dig into the music, is one of the funnest things I've found. You sort of get mesmerized by the feel of the tune, and don't want it to end. Since we're showing examples of good jamming, here's one that had been recently discussed elsewhere. Just a small group of good players sitting around playing a groovy tune over and over, smiling, and having fun in the moment. At around the 3:10 mark, Rachel Eddy talks about the transcendent moment that happens in a jam. That's what it's all about.

[Mark Wilson]

OT doesn't seem a mandolin friendly format but if I played claw hammer banjer or fiddle (or bass even) I think I'd be in heaven there

[Tobin]

OT doesn't seem a mandolin friendly format but if I played claw hammer banjer or fiddle (or bass even) I think I'd be in heaven there

I wouldn't say it's not mandolin friendly. It's not mandolin-centric, to be sure, but it's very common for mandolins to play OT music right alongside the fiddlers. It adds a dimension to the sound that has grown in popularity. Foghorn Stringband is a good example, where Caleb Klauder often plays in unison with the fiddle. He also does some nice high tinkly rhythm sounds to fill in where a normal clawhammer banjo would be droning the 5th string.

And the bright side, for people who hate to sit there and play chop chords for most of the time, is that the mandolin gets to be more of a lead instrument in OT than in bluegrass. One can play the melody, or drop back and play chords, fills, and other ornamentation that doesn't gussy up the tune too much. No chopping required, or even requested.

There are some OT players who will frown on a mandolin doing too much "mandolinny" stuff, of course. But I think most OT jams are open to mandolins being played tastefully and in keeping with the spirit of the music.

But yeah, my love of OT is why I started playing both clawhammer banjo and fiddle. It's nice to be able to fill any of these roles, and it is very eye-opening to play this music from the different instrument perspectives. Playing fiddle makes me appreciate what a good banjo provides for backup. Playing banjo makes me appreciate what a good fiddle provides for the melody.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Are most jams well led like the first one or chaotic like the second one?

Yes.

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear that was Michael Cleveland playing mandolin. Does he play mandolin?!

That's him and yes, he's a fantastic mandolin picker in my opinion.

[pops1]

OT doesn't seem a mandolin friendly format but if I played claw hammer banjer or fiddle (or bass even) I think I'd be in heaven there

I play OT as a mandolin player all the time. I play in jams, play for dances. There are times when I was the only instrument for a dance. Playing along 1, or several, good fiddlers is a blast. In fact most fiddlers like to play with me as it adds a lot to the music.

[foldedpath]

OT doesn't seem a mandolin friendly format but if I played claw hammer banjer or fiddle (or bass even) I think I'd be in heaven there

There are usually mandolin players at the local OldTime jams and they fit right in. Like Tobin said, it's just not mandolin-centric like Bluegrass. You learn to fit in with a group that may be dominated by fiddles as the "alpha" instruments. Same thing as Irish trad basically, although ITM usually has fewer banjos and guitars, and even more fiddles.

The Galax video above may be a bit misleading because it showcases a very accomplished fiddler leading that small jam at a good clip. Many OT jams accommodate newbies and play at more relaxed tempos. It's how a lot of people enter or re-enter music late in life with a guitar, banjo, fiddle, or mandolin. Most of the tunes are easy to learn. Everyone plays in unison without the competitive/performance nature of Bluegrass solos. And the playing style involves repeating one tune over and over until everyone gets into trance mode, unlike the constantly changing tune sets of Irish sessions. If you don't know the tune well the first time around in an OldTime jam, you might have a better handle on it by the 12th repeat.

[JeffD]

There are some OT players who will frown on a mandolin doing too much "mandolinny" stuff, of course. But I think most OT jams are open to mandolins being played tastefully and in keeping with the spirit of the music.

The advice I got early on, and which following I have benefited greatly: Don't chop if it's not bluegrass.

I play mostly old time, and get some initial hesitation from folks occasionally. But it dissipates quickly as I play. My default style is much more old timey than bluegrassy, with lots of single note melody or simple double stops without too much "high lonesome". Unison with the fiddle often enough.


Another great piece of useful advice I got, from a very very gentle spirit, long ago: Be the bunny, all ears and tiny mouth. Don't be the gator, all mouth and tiny invisible ears.

[FatBear]

San Diego area jam: ...From. https://folkworks.org/folk-happening...music-calendar

Thanks! That whole calendar looks useful to me.

[Jess L.]

... OldTime... style involves repeating one tune over and over until everyone gets into trance mode, ...

Definitely a kind of meditative or relaxing thing.

The old saying, "time flies when you're having fun", seems to apply... time disappears (except for the rhythm of the tune of course)... good natural high. One of those "living in the moment" zen things or something I guess. Free, legal, and no side effects (aside from callouses).

[Jeff Mando]

The one I heard was, "time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!"

[Charlie Bernstein]

All good comments. Main points: Jams are for fun. No two are alike. Seek and you'll find - sooner or later.

And two additions:

- For me, jams with friends at people's houses (including mine) are usually more fun than jams at public places.

[Charlie Bernstein]

The one I heard was, "time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!"

Groucho. My favorite of his: Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

[Mark Wilson]

- For me, jams with friends at people's houses (including mine) are usually more fun than jams at public places.

+1

[JeffD]

THIS is (eventually) the purpose of jamming

This, it seems to me, is the purpose of jamming.

[Michael H Geimer]

Jams can be a great place to make friends. Go regularly enough to meet people you like. Invite them over for a living room jam. Eventually, you will have friends who jam, who cook, who eat and socialize. Good times.