Stolen 10 years ago, on craigslist today - what can I do?

[Stevo75]

Colorado also has the "make my day" law. There are a lot of idiots with guns out there, best not to chance it over an old mandolin (unless it's a 1924 Loar).

[colorado_al]

Colorado also has the "make my day" law. There are a lot of idiots with guns out there, best not to chance it over an old mandolin (unless it's a 1924 Loar).

You said it! It's based on the Castle Doctrine. A resident can legally kill an intruder if they feel their person or property is in danger. Not really something you want to be on the wrong side of.

[Stephen Perry]

Hey everybody. Thanks for all the info and concern. Unfortunately, I was unable to get the mandolin back. I contacted the police and they took my info and the report, and then did basically nothing. I'm sure there are more pressing things for the PD to do, so in some sense I understand, but it seems like they had little interest in helping out. The seller has removed the listing. Probably sold to someone who has no idea it is stolen property. I'm bummed, but I hope whoever bought it enjoys it. It is a sweet mandolin.
Al

Civil suit. The guy selling it had no title to it.

[colorado_al]

Civil suit. The guy selling it had no title to it.

If you can find who it was, let me know. Craigslist uses an anonymous remailer that doesn't disclose real email address to the recipient.

[Tobin]

If you can find who it was, let me know. Craigslist uses an anonymous remailer that doesn't disclose real email address to the recipient.

Your attorney could get that info easily enough, especially since you had been working with the police on it. I would imagine that the paper trail so far could easily lead to a court order for Craigslist to provide the seller's info as part of the proceedings. I'm not a lawyer, but it's worth talking to one.

This is why criminals continue to operate: when good people do nothing. I agree that you should not be personally confronting the guy, but there are tools available to restore what is rightfully yours. If you want to let it go, that's your decision to make. But this is how the worst people in our society continue to victimize others.

[Jeff Mando]

An old story, from life before the internet and craigslist: 30 years ago my house was broken into, two guitars and a 4-track cassette recorder (latest technology at the time!) were taken -- along with a brand new state of the art microwave oven! The police did a superb job in finding the microwave oven which showed up at a pawn shop and I got that back a few days later. I decided to write (yep, write!) to Guitar Player magazine and they published the serial numbers in their next issue. I also went to all the music stores and gave them my information. The police also suggested that if an item was pawned and not redeemed it would show up for sale in the pawn shops approximately 90 days after it was pawned -- so I marked my calendar to check later.......well, before that one of the vintage stores called me and said "so and so" had my guitar and they gave me his number. They also said he was basically a "well-known fence" for stolen musical instruments! I called him and pretended to be a customer, no police, no nothing........he said yes, it is for sale.....then I told him over the phone that it is mine and it was stolen. After a pause, (I guess he was collecting his thoughts...) he said "yes, I thought that might be stolen!" Turns out he "turned down" two offers locally and the guitar was now en route to Gruhn in Nashville. He told me he would have Gruhn sent it back and I could pick it up when it came back to him. So, he was trying to be honest. Well, the guitar was returned, I went to his house and he let me know that Gruhn offered him $1000 for it, so by being nice he was essentially "losing" $1000. Then, as I took the guitar he said, aren't you going to "at least" give me back the money I paid for it? I shook my head and had to ask, "how much did you pay for it?" He said he paid the "guy" $60.....

Anyway, I turned toward the door and he says to me, "you know I could sue you, I've got money and I know several lawyers!" I didn't understand this comment, other than to say by then I had figured out he was a sleazy dude. As I left he said, "OK, sure man, and if I find your other guitar and your 4-track, I'll be SURE to call you." Keep in mind I had not mentioned the other guitar or the 4-track! Well, the redneck in me came out, even though I felt he was a dangerous person, and I became loud and I said something to the effect of, "If your name EVER comes up again regarding stolen instruments, I'm going straight to the police and I've got your address." I think I was loud and scary enough as he was backed up into the far corner of the living room as I approached him. I got my guitar back, but later felt it was a risky thing to do -- he was a criminal and thought like a criminal and obviously had little regard for society's rules. You can see he was the type of person who fell through the cracks and was doing this type of thing for years. The guy at the vintage guitar shop knew him as a regular seller, as did several other part-time guitar dealers I mentioned his name to. I never found the other guitar or the 4-track, btw. The whole experience left me with a "dirty" feeling, even for the short time I spent in "his" world. Certainly a different logic than most of us use.

[colorado_al]

Your attorney could get that info easily enough, especially since you had been working with the police on it. I would imagine that the paper trail so far could easily lead to a court order for Craigslist to provide the seller's info as part of the proceedings. I'm not a lawyer, but it's worth talking to one.

This is why criminals continue to operate: when good people do nothing. I agree that you should not be personally confronting the guy, but there are tools available to restore what is rightfully yours. If you want to let it go, that's your decision to make. But this is how the worst people in our society continue to victimize others.

If you want to pay an attorney's fees to recover $1000 instrument, be my guest. I agree that it is not right to let the theft go unanswered, but I'm not going to throw good money after bad. If it were some priceless instrument, maybe, but I'm moving on.

[Stevo75]

Yeah I agree with Al. My attorney has never done anything for free. Sure there are bad people out there and it's nice when they get theirs, but I wouldn't waste my time and money on something like this. Al got his money from insurance. He did all the right stuff with respect to the police department. At some point you need to throw in the towel. Some things are worth fighting for but you need to know where to draw the line.

[colorado_al]

Still, keep your eyes open for it!
Breedlove Quartz KF SN 7219
Upgraded nickel Allen AR-2 tailpiece
Upgraded Schaller tuners
Under bridge pickup

[Caleb]

Bummer it ended this way but it might be all for the best. Al, you've got a stash of great instruments to play. I say enjoy them and life. Whoever stole your mandolin will get his in the end.

[darrylicshon]

You might want to go on Facebook and post your mandolin info in a mandolin group, the new buyer might be a member

[darrylicshon]

You might want to go on Facebook and post your mandolin info in the mandolin group, the new buyer might be a member

[Tom Sanderson]

It was a nice mandolin, and I'm not happy about not getting it back, but it isn't worth getting shot over.

You said you made a clam on your homeowner's insurance. Did you get any money from them? If so, why didn't you just contact the seller and buy it from him, then call the Po Po ?

[Stephen Perry]

Brings up that it really isn't that difficult to sue someone. Plenty of attorneys who were at the bottom of their classes at East Podunk do so every day. Suit leads to subpoena leads to contact point leads to service leads to trial leads to judgment.

Not knowing the defendant was part of the game with the copyright troll cases. Bad Movie Company v. John Doe's 1-100. 100 cases for the price of one. I actually beat that approach here and got rid of our troll (he ran for judge then!!). However, past the improper joinder I was running into difficulty in preventing John Doe from becoming my client!!

[Roger Moss]

The best revenge is living well. Now that youve done all you can I say turn your back on the whole affair and move on. At this point all you can do is worry yourself.

[Timbofood]

After I buy almost anything I quit looking just in case I missed a ten dollar deal. Moving on is excellent advice

[Austin Bob]

Hey Al, sorry to hear you didn't get it back. I agree that $1000 is not worth the possibility of putting yourself in harm's way. And I can't see it being worth involving a lawyer unless you get a family discount.

BTW, a similar model just showed up on the classifieds if your still want one.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/107401#107401

[fscotte]

This whole scenario just doesn't sit right with me. And I know others have to feel the same way. I'm not sure what it is exactly, I can't put my finger on it. Al has solid clad evidence this is his stolen mando, serial number is enough to prove that from the original report, and the picture posted in the craigslist ad. It's a stolen item worth over $1000, it's in an active police report, and too easy for any police to go look at it to verify.

We only know about this because Al was excited enough to post about it and gave us some insight into upcoming agenda with the police. Suddenly, the ad is gone, police seem uninterested in recovering a $1000 stolen item, and we go on our merry way?

I've been doing this law enforcement thing for a while now so maybe its just the cop in me, but this just isn't right. Craigslist recoveries are slam dunk cases when the thief is stupid enough to post the items serial number, etc along with pics. I feel there is a piece of the puzzle we are missing.

[colorado_al]

I heard back today from the detective who had taken my info. Turns out that they tried to setup a meeting with the seller, but the seller backed out and they have been unable to get a response from them again. The cell number that they were given was a a burner that had not been used before and was untraceable. They have made a request to craigslist for the email of the seller, but they told me they would not be surprised if it is a single use address, the same as the phone. They say that likely the seller is an experienced fence and there probably will be no way to track them down at this point, but that they would be in touch if they find anything new.

[FatBear]

This whole scenario just doesn't sit right with me. ... I've been doing this law enforcement thing for a while now so maybe its just the cop in me, but this just isn't right. Craigslist recoveries are slam dunk cases when the thief is stupid enough to post the items serial number, etc along with pics. I feel there is a piece of the puzzle we are missing.

Sounds like it's too late, now. Who knows, maybe the police did call to setup a meeting, the guy smelled a rat and said it was sold? Or maybe it really was sold. Seems unlikely it will come back on that market again. Maybe widen the Craigslist search a bit and see if it turns up somewhere nearby. (Searchtempest.com is handy for this kind of thing.)

But like others have said, sometimes it feels "less bad" to just let something go than to keep hammering away at it. My wife and I got embezzled once some years ago for $52,000. That was most of our income for the year. There was an impressive investigation and excellent cooperation with the local police department. In the end, the DA said that juries tend to be morons and about all she could hope to make truly clear to them was something like $5400 of loss. If we tried for the full amount and failed to convince them of it, we would lose the whole thing and she wasn't willing to do that. With restitution typically set at 25% to 50%, we would have received a very small percentage of our actual loss. It had really torn us apart, psychologically, because the perp was not just an employee, but our oldest friend in the area - predating her employment with us by many years. So we dropped it and ate a lot of soup for a few months until our seasonal business picked up again. The true amount of our loss was staggering, but the amount we gave up by dropping the case was in the same ballpark as Al's loss. It hurts, but in the big scheme of things clinging to the anger hurts even more.

[jaycat]

Are you sure it wasn't the DA who was the moron?

[DHopkins]

Are you sure it wasn't the DA who was the moron?

As a former cop, I've been on the prosecutor's side of the courtroom many times and you're point is well-taken.

[Tobin]

Wow, Fatbear. Sounds like this thief was playing the game like a pro. That really sucks. I still think they could track him down by IP address or other methods. Everybody leaves a digital footprint, but uncovering it is probably beyond the level warranted for a minor case like this. Thanks for the update, though.

[5bassman]

I hate that it didn't work out for you but the best way to handle something like this is to not start a post about it until the results are in. This thread blew up into several pages while it was listed and a simple Google search would have tipped the seller off. Plus, who knows how many people on this forum contacted the guy about the mandolin just for the heck of it. I read early in the thread where someone commented about doing that. Hopefully it'll turn back up in the future. Just hold off on posting about it until it's in your hands.

[AndyPanda]

The problem with trying to get IP or email info is that it all goes through CraigsList (until the buyer and seller trade contact info) and most companies will not release that info.

My car was stolen and abandoned (with lots of damage done) and while I was cleaning up the car I found an iPod filled with rap music left behind, accidentally, by the thief. Apple would have records of what IP address and user if the device had been connecting to iTunes etc. but refused to give any information and the police wouldn't pursue it.