Chords

[Juststarting]

As my user name indicates, I am a rank beginner at the mandolin. No previous musical experience whatsoever. I have been working on this for the past eight months. I am a very diligent practicer, rarely miss a day and try for 1.5 hours every day. So far, only working on the must fundamental aspects (posture, holding the instrument, left hand technique, right hand technique,...) but only for single notes. I struggled at first to get the left wrist to remain straight, but relaxed and I can do ok with a few melodies. This week I made the commitment to start on some cords. G and C are the first ones in my Mel Bay book, so that is where I am. However, it seems that all of my efforts at keeping my wrist straight and relaxed with my thumb along the side of the neck are for naught when trying to make even these most simple of chords. I would like to know if the focus on keeping the wrist straight is supposed to be maintained when playing chords, or is there a whole new set of rules for playing chords.
BTW, I have been doing the fret one string until it rings clean and then putting down the second, and trying to adjust until everything works. But when I look at my left hand position it seems all out of whack.

[Tobin]

Keeping your wrist straight is always best. Ergonomically speaking, you will risk discomfort and injury if you try to play with a bent wrist. Now, you don't need to have it *perfectly* straight. A slight natural bend at the wrist is OK, but the more important thing is for the wrist to be relaxed. You should be cradling the neck between the side of your thumb and the base joint of your index finger, with a gap between the bottom of the neck and the web of your thumb.

Make sure you are arching your fingers over the strings and fretting the strings with your fingertips. Most bent-wrist issues come from trying to play with the pads of the fingers instead of the fingertips.

8 months seems like a rather long time to still be working on getting the left hand position working. I think you would benefit greatly from some one-on-one instruction. Are there any mandolin teachers in your area? Or even a mandolin player you could spend some time with?

[Joel Glassman]

Form the chord shapes with your fingers 1/2 inch above the strings and press them down together. I agree with Tobin. You could use a teacher. Even if only for a few months. [Also search Youtube for video of people playing or giving lessons] It sounds like you are dedicated but working inefficiently.

[JeffD]

Are you starting with four finger bluegrass chords, or the more simple to learn two finger chords?

For bluegrass you need the four finger chords, because the chop requires four finger muting. But for every other kind of music the two finger chords work great.

I often do three finger chords, which is any bluegrass chord without the top or without the bottom. Then when I chop I only strum those three strings. Nobody has caught me doing this yet.

[Juststarting]

Thanks for the responses. I have a "stringed instrument" teacher, but he is not really a mandolin player. He has been very helpful with the most fundamental music concepts (remember, I have zero previous experience except as a listener). Although he plays a mandolin during the lessons, he doesn't even own one, just borrows it off the shelf of the shop. I have come to realize that a proper teacher would be great, however, I have had trouble finding one.
The comment about 8 months being a long time bums me out. I keep reading about how long it takes to learn this stuff and to be patient. I thought I was doing the correct thing by keeping at it very slowly and keeping my expectations very reasonable.
As I said in the OP, just the C and G cords. Actually the G isn't that bad, but when I try to make the C, unless I really contort my hand or place my thumb in the middle of the back of the neck...

[onassis]

The comment about 8 months being a long time bums me out. I keep reading about how long it takes to learn this stuff and to be patient. I thought I was doing the correct thing by keeping at it very slowly and keeping my expectations very reasonable.

Please don't get bummed out by it. You are absolutely doing the right thing by working on technique. The only expectation should be to have fun and enjoy the process. It's all about letting ourselves enjoy the process of creation. There is no time table, and all of this "work", even though it's difficult, should still be enjoyable. The fact that you've kept at it diligently for 8 months speaks to the fact of how much you must enjoy it. There is no need to ever be discouraged.

As to left hand technique - that's something that just takes time. I've been at it for 10 years ( with 20+ years of guitar before that), and left hand technique is still something I think about and work on a lot. The muscles and tendons of the hand are slow to train and strengthen, but it does get better with practice. Making chords shapes is more challenging than melody work, but it has a tremendous pay off. The ability to play along with others will be exponentially increased.

[Tobin]

Yeah, don't get bummed by my comment about 8 months. I didn't mean for it to get you down, but it should spur you to get some help from a real mandolin player. Even if it's just online and not in person. Technique is EVERYTHING for mandolin playing. And yes, it's a slow process. It takes years and years to develop a full understanding of the fretboard, fluidity of motion, speed, tone, etc. But the fundamentals have to be correct or you will never get past a certain plateau.

Taking it slow and focusing on correct form can be good, but not if you never get anywhere. I do think that you should have been playing chords within the first few weeks of picking up the mandolin, and the two-finger C/G chords are about the simplest chords you can play. They shouldn't be difficult or require hand contortions. You definitely need someone to put their eyes on what you're doing there. Can you take a photo or video of your issue? Maybe we can help from here.

And it does bear asking: is your mandolin well set up? Many a new player has run up against a brick wall by trying to play a factory mandolin that is essentially unplayable.

[JeffD]

There are lots of chord charts out there for mandolin, and as you can see, there are many configurations to chose from for every chord. The choice depends on the kind of music and a whole bunch of other stuff, but for now I don't think there is anything wrong with picking the easiest configuration for the chords you want to know.

Don't worry about the 8 months. I did not learn chords for several years after I started, as I was thinking about single note melody.

We all find different things hard or easy, and don't worry about starting in the "best way" because there is no way to start that doesn't lead to some regrets later on. Just dive in, do what you do, enjoy what comes easy, practice what is hard, and enjoy the journey.

For most people it takes about a decade to sound like you been playing for ten years.

[mandroid]

Well trained Violin players Make the Jump to Mandolin with less obstacles than Maybe Guitarists trying to double..


FWIW your double stops on the fiddle are 2/3 of a Chord..


the 1st and 3rd , or 3rd and 7th say a lot with 2 notes.

[Mandobart]

Are you starting with four finger bluegrass chords, or the more simple to learn two finger chords?

For bluegrass you need the four finger chords, because the chop requires four finger muting. But for every other kind of music the two finger chords work great.

I often do three finger chords, which is any bluegrass chord without the top or without the bottom. Then when I chop I only strum those three strings. Nobody has caught me doing this yet.

This is really good advice. Start with just the two-finger chords. This will give you enough to get started. You only need to have 10 chords down to cover 4 basic keys:
You should learn the I, IV, V and vi chord in the most commonly used keys - C, G, D, A. I'll explain below:

Start in the key of C. The I is C. The IV is the major chord four tones up (counting the tonic or C). So the IV chord is F. NOTE: in the two-finger chord chart they don't show a "regular" F. The beauty of being tuned in fifths means that the IV chord is the same shape as the I chord, just moved down to the next lower pair of strings. The V chord is G. Again, the V chord is the same shape as the I chord just moved up to the next higher pair of strings. The vi is the relative minor of the tonic, six tones up - Am. A good two finger Am is the second fret on the two lowest strings, G and D. Wow, four chords for each key? Not really four new chords because...

We move up the circle of fifths from C to G. The I is G which we already learned. The IV is C which we also already learned. We need to add the V, D and the vi Em.

Moving along the circle we come to D next. You can see we only need to add two new chords, V A and vi Bm.

For key of A we just add the V E and vi F#m. Ten chords to cover four keys. Its not everything but more than enough to jam with friends.

You should be able to learn these two finger chords in just a few months of steady practice. At the same time practice shifting from one chord to the next. A doo-wop progression is a fun way to do this: I, vi, IV, V. Think "Blue Moon", "Wonderful World (Sam Cooke)", "Heart and Soul", etc.

[Gelsenbury]

The C and G chords are really good chords to start with. If you are unsure about your technique, ask a teacher to look at it or post a video here.

Bear in mind that not all the principles of good technique can be applied for all chords. This isn't coming from me - I got it from one of Mike Marshall's instructional videos. "All bets are off" was his phrase, I believe.

[Juststarting]

Thanks for all of the responses. I want to say first and foremost that every minute that I am practicing gives me great satisfaction. Even the smallest amount of progress seems like a tremendous reward to me. The whole endeavor is extremely relaxing and therapeutic. This thread has also convinced me that reaching out to others is not only technically helpful, but that there are folks who have been where I am at some time, have overcome obstacles, and then are ready to share with others who are struggling. The encouragement to preserve is great! I plan on being back to report improvement in my C and G chords and having questions about my next hurdle. Thanks again.

[farmerjones]

Indeed, I recently gave a friend a loner mandolin, as he expressed an interest. I printed out the two finger chord sheet from this very site. I also posted a few very basic videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITtr3R64RiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT9MRyZl4xo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JccQJ1NKTo

Explained the key of C, for this tune, cycles through the chords of C, F, & G.
The key of G it would cycle through the chords of G, C, & D.

Strange or not, his biggest obstacle was his right hand. So, until it clicks, we suffer a bit.
But take heart it will click, and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Mark Miller]

On the "don't get bummed out" score: before mandolin, I began learning to play music on a guitar, having never played an instrument. I began with chords, and it took me months before I could get my hand in position to hold down chords and change them fast enough to keep up with really simple and slow songs. Like you, I stuck with it, getting satisfaction from small improvements, and I'm good enough now on both instruments to play with others and not to drive people crazy around the house. You will get there.

Two things you haven't mentioned, but that I found immensely helpful early on:

1) I got some DVD's of people who know how to play and just watched them a lot to get used to seeing what it looks like when someone plays with facility. Looking at performance videos is pretty useless for a newbie in this respect (although very useful later on) because in performance it's all too fast. But watching someone who is really good and who is slowing down to show people what to do can over time really help you internalize proper technique in a way that's less mechanical than "OK, keep wrist straight, put down finger near the fret, bend at precisely this angle," etc etc--although all that is necessary too early on. mandolessons.com might be good for this if you don't want to buy dvd's.

2) break it down to just the left hand. forget about strumming anything. just put down the G chord, taking however much time you need. then lift up just a little bit and put it back down. do that several times. then start lifting up a little further and do that several times. then start lifting up and relaxing your hand a little bit out of that G chord position, and then re-forming it and placing it down. then start placing down the chord, and lifting off and just putting your hand down in your lap for a second and then re-placing it. It will take a few days or even weeks to progress through this, don't rush it. And do it all slowly. You are building muscle memory in a systematic fashion this way. Then do it for C. Then do it alternating the chords. This worked miracles for me.

[ralph johansson]

As my user name indicates, I am a rank beginner at the mandolin. No previous musical experience whatsoever. I have been working on this for the past eight months. I am a very diligent practicer, rarely miss a day and try for 1.5 hours every day. So far, only working on the must fundamental aspects (posture, holding the instrument, left hand technique, right hand technique,...) but only for single notes. I struggled at first to get the left wrist to remain straight, but relaxed and I can do ok with a few melodies. This week I made the commitment to start on some cords. G and C are the first ones in my Mel Bay book, so that is where I am. However, it seems that all of my efforts at keeping my wrist straight and relaxed with my thumb along the side of the neck are for naught when trying to make even these most simple of chords. I would like to know if the focus on keeping the wrist straight is supposed to be maintained when playing chords, or is there a whole new set of rules for playing chords.
BTW, I have been doing the fret one string until it rings clean and then putting down the second, and trying to adjust until everything works. But when I look at my left hand position it seems all out of whack.

If you have trouble keeping your wrist straight it could be because you're trying to support the neck with your left hand. And I'm a bit puzzled by "my thumb along the side of the neck". Do you find that position natural?

The left hand is there to stop the strings, not hold or support the mandolin. What I do myself is secure the mandolin in place, using a strap or points or a tiny portion of my right forearm, and let my left arm hang loosely on the side of my body, then bring my left hand to the mandolin and start playing. My thumb will land where it lands. As I've mentioned in other threads I have almost no control over it, owing to an accident almost nine years ago. But I certainly never forced it into this or that position before the accident either.

[Mandoplumb]

Don't over think or over complicate chords on a mandolin. If you are talking chords shapes as opposed to what chord to play, learn the 2 or even better 3 finger major chord, just the one shape will get you every major chord there is depending on where you put it. Many songs can be played with only major chords and there is a pattern as to where the I, IV, V, and II are relative to each other. After you develope some comfort there learn how to modify the basic chord for minor and 7th, which will be the same modification of each chord. Now you can play about any song that has ever been written, yes you will runn into 9th and 5th and Dim etc and at times a different shape may add something to a certain song but you can learn them ass needed. Don't be overwhelmed trying to learn all at this time. I've played 50+ years and I still learn a different shape that add to what I'm playing every now and then but I could play the chords of the song using only the 3 finger shape.

[Joel Glassman]

More opinions which might be helpful, a little down the road. In my opinion, a student learns the basics of playing and then how to transcribe from recordings. [Transcribing can be written but for "folk" musicians is likely to be learning by memory.] Once a student learns how to play music from recordings, that becomes the primary means of learning and self-improvement. Its best done in conjunction with playing in groups. Learning solos and tunes, but hopefully not just copying them to be played exactly as recorded. You work on the music you are jamming on or performing. Also noticing whatever areas which need to be improved. Best done by listening to recordings of yourself. After a few years it sounds much better :^) and more original.