Time to change strings?

[danostrowski]

I have a beautiful Phoenix mandolin, but I've never changed the strings on it since I got it a few years back from Gryphon (which is now quite a jog for me.)

Today I went to play and the A string sounds... basically dead, anytime I finger above D on it. E string also sounds very tinny. Lemme record a sample, actually...



This is just the strings being old, I'm guessing? I have never changed them before and I'm a bit nervous to do so, but I'm also not sure I want to bring it in to just any old shop.

Anyhow, that sound like the problem?

[JeffD]

1 - I change my strings about three times a year. Everyone is different, but one useful rule of thumb is that if you think you might need to change the strings, you do.

2 - Whether your strings need changing or not, it won't solve this problem. Something else is wrong. The A strings and E strings are against the frets. Sounds like you need a set up.

[AlanN]

Yep, something ain't right in River City. And a string change likely won't fix it.

[CES]

Yes, definitely change the string!! It's not difficult, just change one pair at a time so you don't have to worry about the bridge moving. Frets.com has a good tutorial section on how to do it, and the search function here will bring up many threads discussing different techniques/tips to make it easier. I typically change mine every 3-6 months depending on how often I'm playing (I own several instruments and spend time on all of them). Just something ya gotta learn to do. Also, I'm sure YouTube can help you out, or find a guitar playing friend to show you how to do it. You can do it! And, you'll be amazed at how much better it sounds after the change.

Edit: I didn't watch the video before posting..Jeff and Alan are correct...

[danostrowski]

1 - I change my strings about three times a year. Everyone is different, but one useful rule of thumb is that if you think you might need to change the strings, you do.

2 - Whether your strings need changing or not, it won't solve this problem. Something else is wrong. The A strings and E strings are against the frets. Sounds like you need a set up.

Hmm.. I wondered about this. I'm puzzled how something went wrong, it's been playing beautifully for ... maybe a year and a half... but it explains why it seemed so sudden.

Any idea how I (or a haphazard 5 year old) could have messed this up?

[Steve Ostrander]

Are you humidifying your mandolin? It's winter and it gets dry, wood shrinks, bad things can happen.

[pops1]

Not sure where you are, but are you heating to keep warm? It's possible your mandolin dried out and the saddle needs to go up. Measure from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the G&E strings. Depending on your setup G string should be around 2/32, E string less, maybe 1.5/32. This is what I like anyway, I like a low action, some like it higher. If yours is below this then it is too low and your saddle needs to raise to bring the strings farther off the fingerboard.

[danostrowski]

Are you humidifying your mandolin? It's winter and it gets dry, wood shrinks, bad things can happen.

On interesting, I didn't think of this. We're in the SF Bay area so normally it's just perfect for stringed instruments, here, but it *has* been a bit cold, maybe it's been dry, too. I don't humidify it, it hangs on the wall with my other instruments for easy playing...

[pops1]

On interesting, I didn't think of this. We're in the SF Bay area so normally it's just perfect for stringed instruments, here, but it *has* been a bit cold, maybe it's been dry, too. I don't humidify it, it hangs on the wall with my other instruments for easy playing...

If you have some heat running check where it's hanging on the wall that the air movement is not hitting the mandolin, it will dry out quicker if it is.

[Bill Cameron]

I think learning to change strings properly is a skill every mandolinist should have--and I -hate- doing it, it's not really difficult but it's kind of a finicky pain in the butt kind of task. But it's necessary because even though you can take it to a shop, you're likely to encounter situations where thats not feasible--ie you break a string during a performance, you are somewhere out in the woods, or you might even be asked to help a newbie friend or relative.

First, it has been correctly pointed out that the age of the strings is not the problem that you show on the video. "Any old shop", as long as they are used to dealing with acoustic instruments generally, should be your next stop, to get a setup and string change at the same time. If you tell us your approx location, there will be no shortage of suggestions in that regard.

There are a number of clues when your strings are old; buzzes and radically decayed tone at particular fret locations is not one of them. The first clue is that they just sound dull and flabby, not bright like they did a couple of years ago. The deterioration in sound is gradual, but the improvement when you put the new ones on is dramatic. The second is that they don't want to stay in tune, and because they dont sound good even when they are in tune, you keep having this urge to check the tuning again. The third is visual--strings appear dirty, rusty, and sometimes coated or wrapped strings have the coatings or wrappings visibly disintegrating--thats extreme wear. It Becomes very obvious if you change a single broken string, the new one will be much brighter and cleaner than the old one next to it.
So go ahead and take it to the local acoustic music shop this time, watch how they do the string change if possible, and be sure to get an extra set of strings or two so you can do it next time. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain in terms of getting the most out of your expensive instrument.

[Don Grieser]

Sounds like you need to raise the bridge on the treble side to me. Measure from the top of the fret to the string at the 12th fret on both the G and E strings. They should be close to the same.

[minuteman]

Look closely at those string slots in the bridge and see if they are cut too deep.

[danostrowski]

Look closely at those string slots in the bridge and see if they are cut too deep.

This ... seems an unlikely thing to happen after owning this for over a year...

[gtani7]

You can look at the neck and see high frets, a hump over neck joint or the trussrod needs adjusting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzirIfsQPo. I think i would take it to Gryphon, Gelb, Blue note, Gary Brawer, Guitarworks SF or other qualified tech and have them set it up again (and read Rob M's pdf ebook on setup).

[Ivan Kelsall]

Put a set of new strings on,one course at a time.That way you don't need to move the bridge. When the new strings are on,bring them up to as much tension as you need, so that you can still move the bridge easily enough with your fingers. Tune one pair of strings to 'any note' that your tuner will recognise - now,play those strings 'open' & check the tuner - now,fret them at the 12th fret & check the note on the tuner,it should be the same (or very,very close). If the note is off either sharp or flat,move the bridge towards the neck if the note is flat,or,towards the tailpiece if the note is sharp. Do that until the open notes & fretted notes are the same,making sure that the bridge is perfectly upright (not leaning one way or the other).

Ok - Tune up to full pitch, making sure that the bridge doesn't move or begin to lean forward. Now check how well the strings fret, one course at a time all the way up to say,the 15th fret. The notes should be clear & the strings shouldn't buzz. If any of the strings buzz (it seems that currently,the E strings are a tad low ?),slacken the strings off & adjust the bridge on that side to raise the strings slightly.Re-tune & check again. One point - the E strings really do need to be at a reasonable height to give them some power. Many folks on here have posted regarding 'weak sounding' E strings,& it's mostly been down to them being too low. I have my action (string height) a tad higher than most. This helps with the volume i get & also helps in making sure that the strings don't 'bottom out' due to temp.changes.
These are my string heights :-
G strings top of 12th fret to bottom of string = 2.5 mm
E strings --------------------------------- = 1.75 mm

If after doing all that,you're still getting some unwanted noises,than maybe a visit to a good luthier to get it checked out is on the cards,but hopefully,it should be ok.

One point - check how flat your fingerboard is,just in case it's 'got the hump'. Bruce Weber told me that his mandolins are sent out from their shop with 'flat' fingerboards,that how all my 3 are. A small amount of relief (dip) in the fingerboard is fine,but 'humps' ain't !. Press the G strings down at the 1st fret & again at the last fret on the neck (not the one over the body) & see how it sits.
You can use a capo to fret the strings at the 1st fret & press the strings down at the last fret with one hand. If you check the gap between the G strings & the 6th fret with feeler gauges,,all you need is either no gap,or maybe one or two thousandths of an inch.

If there's any sign of an upward bow in the neck,you'll need to adjust the truss rod to bring it back straight,something i'd leave to a luthier,
Ivan

[Paul Busman]

Whether or not old strings are the cause of your problem, you've got to learn to change strings. It's not at all difficult and is just basic maintenance of your instrument.

[fentonjames]

Strings should be changed after 30-40 hours of playing time. More or less.

[Jenny]

I agree, start with humidifying and raising the action on the treble side. There is no truss rod to adjust. Look down the neck from the nut, looking at the top of the fret edges, there should be no bump. Use the string as a visual straight edge. I set the action under the e strings at 3/64ths from the top of the 12th fret to the underside of the e string. If something is majorly wrong, please feel free to contact me.

[Bob Clark]

Also bear in mind that this special instrument is meant to take Thomastik Mittles (Mediums) which do last a whole lot longer than other strings, although this set is certainly beyond its useful life at this point. I mention this for two reasons. First, the OP might unknowingly go with more typical string choices and do damage in the process. These are light strings. Note the label in the instrument listing the recommended string gauges. Heavier strings can damage the instrument. Second, the OP might be shocked by the price of Thomastics, thinking they should be changed at the interval other strings are typically changed. These strings sound great on this mandolin and they last a really long time. They are actually rather economical when you figure in their expected life.

That said, changing strings can be a satisfying activity in the general upkeep of your mandolin. It is something I have always enjoyed. I know that some players don't like to change strings, but I find it relaxing.

[danostrowski]

@Bob Clark: Yes, I actually was told this at Gryphon, and it came with some extra strings that I still have!

@Jenny: Thanks for confirming the earlier diagnosis, at this point I may just take it to Grpyhon while I'm travelling about the bay and tell them what was said here and watch everything that's done if they'll let me (which I bet they will, they're the best.)

[danostrowski]

Also, as an aside, today less of the frets on the A string are tinny/hitting so seems to be weather related, as indicated, though I feel, looking down the nut as Jenny suggested, that the E/A strings are still too low relative to the others.

Thanks all for the feedback/help!

[UsuallyPickin]

Well ..... Yes you need new strings. You also need to download Rob Meldrum's mandolin setup book from this site. It is a free book and will help you through adjusting your neck, changing your strings and setting your bridge if needed and other mandolin related chores. All skills you will want to acquire as a mandolin owner and player that houses a growing youngster. R/

[Jenny]

When I worked in a music store I would tell customers that I would charge them to put strings on, but I would teach them to do it themselves for free.

[T.D.Nydn]

Strings should be changed after 30-40 hours of playing time. More or less.

That would be every 2-3 weeks for me,,,instead I change them every 1-2 months.,,you can hear when they are just not doing it anymore...

[JeffD]

If the instrument was playing fine in the past, then something happened. What ever is wrong with it is not the result of normal wear and tear. Humidity/temperature related, an accidental bump or drop, or a slowly developing issue that has finally manifest like top sinkage or a loose brace or something. Not a routine maintenance item.

Get a pro to look at it and likely it will be obvious and fixable. Soon enough you will get back to the playin'.