Mic and software for session recording - help needed

[Bob Andress]

I need some help choosing a mic and software. Not trying to cut a CD, just want something better than recording with a phone mic.

I want to record group sessions (4 members: vocals, guitar, mando) I don't want to carry extra equipment everywhere so hopefully I can accomplish this by using a decent mic and my phone. I would then take it home and use software to clean it up and maybe add a bass line to it (using my upright, not the software)

I would like to purchase a mic under $200. Something that could do well picking up everyone in a small room.

I am an Android/Microsoft user so Garage band is out and an Apogee mic may be as well.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[foldedpath]

You could get a Zoom H2n pocket recorder for $160, maybe less on holiday deals. It can do "surround" recording with four mics that give you 4 separate WAV files. Set it on the floor or a table, with the group surrounding the recorder.

Then transfer the files to an audio editor on your computer like Audacity (free) or Reaper (inexpensive and more versatile) for mixing the tracks. You'll need an interface for adding a bass track, although the H2n can be used in a pinch as a 16-bit recording interface.

I've had the older H2 for years, along with other more advanced systems. It feels cheaply built, but mine has survived many workshops. It's a neat little recorder if this is all you need.

[Beanzy]

You could just add the IQ6 if you're using an iPhone
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/hand...microphone-ios

It's like getting the mike and preamp bit of the h4n but using the phone for the rest.

There's another version IQ7
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/hand...microphone-ios

[Bob Andress]

Thanks Beanzy, but I'm not an apple user. This might have been an easier task if I were.

Foldedpath. It looks like the H2n might accomplish exactly what I'm trying to do, save the addition of a later bass track. I'll keep researching to see what others say about the best software to use with it. Appreciate the help!

[Beanzy]

The Zoom H4n I have will let me record in 4track mode using the stereo mic pair, then record on tracks 3&4 using external mics or plug in sources later. That should do the job for not much more money than the H2n.

[Brian Sullivan]

I use my H2N for all sorts of things. The nice thing about the H2N is that it can also function as a USB microphone, giving you a chance to record that bass line directly into your software without too much fuss (assuming you're talking about an upright or acoustic bass). I didn't realize that it could divide 'surround' files into four separate files, only thought it divided into 2 mixes, front and back of the unit. Good to learn something new! Also, Audacity is a good, free audio editing software you might try. Lots of plug-ins available online too for your editing needs.

[Don Grieser]

I also have an old H2 that keeps on running. Like others said, it can also be used as a USB mic, so you could dump your files into a DAW and then overdub using it as a USB mic. It's much better than it should be for the price.

[almeriastrings]

I would definitely go with a separate recorder over a mic attachment for your 'phone. They might look convenient, but attachments tie your 'phone up and the way a lot of them connect is none-too-solid. You can get really good little recorders these days that are very easy to use and take up hardly any space and weigh very little:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H1

[Bob Andress]

Thanks all! I'm going to go with a zoom. Problem now is deciding between the H2n and the H4n. Looks like the 2 will do, but will I someday wish I had the added features of the 4...?

[Don Grieser]

From what I've read, I'd skip the H4n and jump to the H5. The H1 or H2 will last you a long time, though.

[foldedpath]

I agree with Don, skip the H4n and get the H5 if you're going that route.

I bought the H5 a while back, mainly for recording double-system (un-sync'd) audio for video work with a DSLR. It has a few features the H4n lacks for that, which won't be important if you don't do video, but I believe it also has a new preamp chip with slightly improved quality over the H4n. Mine has worked flawlessly, it's a good recorder. I use my old H2 for casual workshop recordings, the H5 for video work, and then the heavy stuff (separate preamps and interfaces) for fixed location studio recording.

If you're not doing DSLR video, then the main reason you would want a Zoom H5 over the H2n is the ability to use the XLR inputs for outboard microphones. Of course that will drive up your total cost too. Also, the internal batteries don't last long if you're using outboard condenser mics on the XLR inputs with phantom power. You might have to do llke I did, and buy an AC power supply.

The H2n is *much* easier to use as a grab 'n go portable recorder without having to fool with other microphones, and the batteries have a decent lifetime.

[derbex]

I have an H1, which is OK, but I think I wish I'd paid the extra for an H2. The main benefit being that the H2 will stand up on its own, wheras the H1 needs a tripod, Zoom offer that as a kit with the H1.

Works fine as a USB mic.

[Jen88]

One of my friends has a Zoome recorder (H@ I think) and I was very impressed with its quality. It wasn't accessible for me, so I'll probably end up getting a Myc attachment for the phone. However my case is pretty specialised. IF I knew one of the recorders would be accessible to someone with no vision, I would go for one of those instead.

Cheers,
Jen.

[Astro]

I am thinking about getting the Zoom Q2N http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...bZZxoCBFnw_wcB

Its a good price point, can do simple rudimentary video or just audio or use as a usb mic too I think. I wont buy it until the accessories are available for it. The battery life on these is so short it helps to have AC adapter. Plus its brand new so I figured give them time to get the kinks out. But if its as good a recorder as the other zoom products, looks like a winner.

[Don Grieser]

Check out the acoustic guitar demo video on the site--cool version of Pretty Polly. That looks like a great video/audio recorder.

[foldedpath]

I am thinking about getting the Zoom Q2N http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...bZZxoCBFnw_wcB

Its a good price point, can do simple rudimentary video or just audio or use as a usb mic too I think.

The early Zoom video/audio recorders were terrible in low light (I had a Zoom Q2 for a while and sold it). They're claiming to have addressed low light performance in that ad, but if you ever plan to shoot in those conditions I strongly recommend reading some user reviews on low light performance.

One reason I went into DSLR for video was low light ability, which makes it much easier for both unpredictable location work and using lower-wattage when using video lights. This new Zoom might work okay, but check this with user reports before buying.

One other thing.... the monitor is on the back side. This makes it difficult to shoot video of yourself playing, if that's something you're planning to do. Framing is hit or miss. This is why you see so many YouTube videos of people playing with their heads cut off, or framed so you can see what their hands are doing.

If you have someone to help you with framing, this isn't a problem. If you don't, then you might want to consider one of the more inexpensive conventional videocams, which usually have a monitor that can be flipped around to check framing from the video subject position. With an accessory XLR preamp, this can also solve problems where you might want a closer mic position than the ideal spot for the camera lens. Many video recordings made with simple gear like this suffer from too much ambient noise, because the camera is further away than you'd want the mics.

[Bob Andress]

I have a chance to get an h4n for $160.
Without the capabilities of the H5, how else could I sync recordings with video if I chose to do that in the future, say for youtube vids? Is there free software that lets me sync wave files with video capture from, say, a smartphone?

[fatt-dad]

My H2 (old school) still works great. Won't handle the more modern SD cards and nothing over 16gb. I'm sure the new ones do; however. Hard in low light! That's true in today's performance. I think mine's either front and back OR left and right. Works great in both MP3 and wav files.

I've sat with very high end equipment and I just don't have the ear for much more refinement than the Zoom. Not a pro though, so, even in perfect recording my nuanced errors would remain - ha!

f-d

p.s., just to add I didn't know much about iPhone mics. I'll look into that, but figure I'd miss having my phone in my pocket. . .

[foldedpath]

I have a chance to get an h4n for $160.
Without the capabilities of the H5, how else could I sync recordings with video if I chose to do that in the future, say for youtube vids? Is there free software that lets me sync wave files with video capture from, say, a smartphone?

The video-related features in the H5 are more convenience than necessity. Here's how you'd do it with an H4n:

1) The H5 can do an automatic "click" (like from a clapper board) at the start of recording. If you're feeding the audio from the H5 into your video camera or DSLR, you can use that spike in the audio to visually line up the H5 audio to the camera audio, then you mute the camera track and it's all in sync. But you can do the same thing just by having the subject clap their hand loudly (three times gives you something obvious to recognize). It's just a convenience with the H5, something you don't have to remember to do.

2) The H5's line output can be set to a -20db pad, which is useful if you're feeding audio to a DSLR because the audio input on most of those cameras is expecting mic level and can distort with full line output. However, there is a cable available with a built-in pad for recorders that don't have this feature, so again just a convenience.

The larger differences between the H4n and the H5 are the slightly better preamps in the H5, and the H5 can use the interchangeable heads with different mics or 2 more XLR inputs from the Zoom H6. Note that the two XLR input adapter does not have phantom power though.

BTW, aside from eyeballing an audio spike in your video editor to align "wild" audio tracks, there are plugins that can do this too like Pluraleyes (I think it's called). I've just lined it up by eye, but you'd probably want to automate it if you do a lot of video work.

[Jess L.]

... will I someday wish I had the added features...

I can identify with that sense of doubt, it can sometimes linger even *after* purchasing an item.

A while back I bought a Tascam (cheaper version of a Zoom), yeah it records, but in the back of my mind I'm kind of still wondering if I made the right choice. Zoom seems to get a lot more recommendations.

I don't need a bunch of extra features like 4 tracks or video or whatever, but I'm still unsure as to just the basic recording quality itself, as far as which brand/model is better.

The only definitive thing I've discovered so far, about that particular Tascam that I bought (model # DR-22WL), is don't bother with the smartphone wifi controls because it sucks the recorder's battery down too fast. Fortunately the recorder's wifi function can be turned off easily.

I also might have been better off to do more research on figuring out how to buy/use mics that don't pick up so much background noise. The Tascam's built-in mics are indeed very sensitive, probably would be great for field recordings of birds or something, not so sure how to properly do recordings for music where there's also background noise... that is, without buying a $1000 microphone or something.

But maybe the Zoom models have the same issues, I don't know.

[Beanzy]

One thing I've found with my H4n is that having the four tracks rather than stereo does work best when using it for video.
By using the unit in close to the centre on wide stereo (120deg) for ch 1&2 and a couple of AKGC1000s hyper cardoid as the wide field pair, I can later control the soundscape to give a very convincing stereo image from whichever camera position is chosen in the edit. This wouldn't work as an audio recording, but does help to immerse the viewer in the event when edited later.
Especially useful for theatre performances.

Also using these with the mics closer gives them a bit more meat to the sound which can get a bit thin sounding at a distance of 4 metres or more.

[almeriastrings]

There is no qualitative difference overall between the Zoom, Tascam or indeed most of the other brands of similarly specified small recorders. Some have one feature that might be better (or worse) than another, but overall, they are incredibly similar and often use the same or near identical 'chips' to do the A/D conversion etc. The DR-22 is an excellent recorder.

In really noisy situations, you might find a more directional mic useful, however. No problem. Your recorder will work with most of the small 'shotgun' video microphones. These are far more directional than the cardiod mics included so you can 'focus' more on what is happening on stage rather than picking up so much audience noise, etc. For example, Rode make some suitable models. Note that very highly directional mics will be mono, not stereo, however, but that is the price you pay for eliminating a very high percentage of unwanted sound off to the sides and rear.

Getting close to your source with your existing mics should also help a lot.

[Jen88]

I brought an IQ7 for use with my phone. HAven't checked out the accessibility of the HandyRecorder app yet, but sure it will work with something I can use.

My friend uses the Zoom to record friends Gigs etc if they want it, nothing fancy. Provided he finds a good spot if works well enough.

I think most people listening to things on Youtube do so in more of a casual mode, so aren't using their high-end headphones or what ever.

Cheers,
Jen.

[colorado_al]

I have the zoom H2N and really like it. Very versatile and excellent sound quality. It also also comes with software for download that is decent.
Here it is for $150
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/zoom-h2n...23163307.html?

[Jim]

I like my Tascam DR7 for that sort of recording. A computer with interface for mike and audacity will do for adding tracks though I use my old Fostex 8 trac for that sort of thing. I find the Tascam a bit more user friendly than the Zoom.