Mandos in Cars

[teleman73]

I've got a little bit of a odd question. So for my work I travel a lot and spend large amounts of time leading trips in the wilderness often more than two weeks at a time). As such I don't have a house or apartment to keep my mandolin in. Sometimes I can store it indoors where I work, but depending on where I'm at that isn't always possible. Historically if I don't think I can keep my mando somewhere safe I've left it at a friends or my Dad's house if I'm passing through. The problem is this means I often get to play less than I would like when I'm not in the same place as the instrument. I do have a cheapo that I learned on that I can bring with me and not be concerned about damaging. What I'd really like to know though is if people think it is totally irresponsible to leave my mando (an Eastman 615) in my car when I'm travelling like this. It feel like a shame to have a nicer instrument and to just have it stored away where I can't play it. But I also don't want to break it by storing it somewhere like this. For the record my next stint of travel and work will have me in Colorado, Utah, Southern California, and back to Colorado from January to May, so there will definitely be low humidity problems and big temperature swings.

[s1m0n]

Can you afford a carbon-fibre mandolin?

[teleman73]

Can you afford a carbon-fibre mandolin?

That might be the instrument of my dreams, but for now that's not really in my budget. I've also thought about these as the other ideal solution http://www.beltona.net/wordpress/man...mandolin_koru/

[EdHanrahan]

There are the two levels of Ovation mandolin, both with small guitar-shaped body and black resin-ish bowl-back that can truly take a beating. I forget the model numbers, but the lesser one has a 1-piece neck while the more respectable has maybe a 5-ply neck, with two (or 3?) stringers of lighter maple showing at the top of the headstock. They may not be in production anymore, but do show in the classifieds every so often.

I've always had a love/hate relation with Ovation guitars, believing early on that their only good attribute was the ability to survive a tour of Viet Nam. But some do sound respectable, and the sound quality has little to do with their price or position in the model line-up. A used bottom-of-the-line Celebrity model, even with some wood-top surface-finish cracks, has been my decent-sounding camping guitar for several decades, and still in use.

BTW, the Kaman company's musical instrument line was an offshoot of their primary business using that same material: helicopter rotor blades. Yes, they can take a lickin' and keep on pickin'. (Ooh! Apologies to Timex for that one.)

[Dave Bradford]

I agree with Ed that Ovation mandolins might be a good option to consider. I also had good luck for many years with a Crafter mandolin with a similar type composite back that survived many campouts, beach visits and other locations that I wouldn't want to bring a higher quality mandolin. I'll bring my USA made Ovations to any occasion, or location that I want to play, especially if I can plug in.

[allenhopkins]

Keeping a mandolin in an environment, like an automobile, that experiences wide fluctuations in temperature and humidity, does not necessarily result in damage to the instrument. How the instrument is cased can largely determine what the effects are.

The main damaging factors, in my experience have been [1] excessive heat, [2] extremely low humidity, and [3] rapid, extreme temperature changes. A good hardshell case, wrapped in an insulative blanket and a reflective outer shell of some kind (Mylar "space blanket," e.g.), will withstand most normal hot temperatures. Keeping the mandolin away from radiant heating by the sun -- surprisingly, the trunk may be better than the passenger compartment, if the instrument's left for hours -- will generally keep temperatures inside the case under 100ºF, and while temperatures in that range can at times soften particular "soft" finishes, such as those on earlier Eastman mandolins, they in most cases won't cause glue joints to let go, or cause mahogany necks to warp under string tension.

In-case humidifiers, if checked on a daily basis, and refilled (distilled water) regularly, can stave off the effects of environmental dryness. Investing in good temperature and humidity gauges, and keeping them within the case, allows monitoring of the mandolin's immediate environment. While it's preferable to keep humidity around 50%, and temperature below 90ºF, many instruments have survived, unscathed, exposure to environments outside those parameters.

Avoiding rapid temperature changes just means keeping the instrument cased and insulated, allowing its immediate environment to slowly adjust to the "outside" temperature. The main damage caused by too-rapid heating or cooling, is to the instrument's finish, rather than its structure. Not trivial, but not life-threatening either.

Loosening string tension when storing the mandolin reduces stress on top and neck, and related glue joints, and may blunt the effects of temperature. Low humidity's main damages are cracks along grain lines, as wood fibers lose moisture, shrink, and pull apart, and also top sinkage. Again, these can be forestalled by maintaining in-case humidity.

Long story short, there are expedients that can minimize your Eastman's risk of damage, if you take it with you in your car. You may well decide that purchase of a more durable instrument makes sense to you, but I wouldn't assume that your current "good" mandolin is going to be irreparably harmed by being kept in your car -- if you take some precautions.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Really good insulation is the answer,& i mean GOOD !. Air is a very poor conductor of heat, either inwards towards the instrument ,or outwards from it. I haven't done it with a mandolin yet,but i've done it with my banjo many times. I use a double bed sized duvet - a cheap(ish) one,& wrap it around the case. There's enough air trapped inside the duvet to prevent warm (hot) air getting to it unless you're maybe sitting around in Death Valley. I've left my banjo wrapped in the duvet in the boot ('trunk' to you folks), of my wife's car when i've got tired of hauling it around, & the case hasn't even been remotely warm. It's the same principle that keeps the Arabs cool in their hot countries. Surround yourself with layers of loose,air filled clothing = you stay cool,
Ivan

[teleman73]

Thanks for the tips everyone. Ivan, I have a 0 degree (F) sleepingbag that I might use as insulation. Since heat can soften the glue in an instrument is there anything in particular to watch out for when the instrument gets cold, particularly below freezing?

[pops1]

Thanks for the tips everyone. Ivan, I have a 0 degree (F) sleepingbag that I might use as insulation. Since heat can soften the glue in an instrument is there anything in particular to watch out for when the instrument gets cold, particularly below freezing?

Let it warm up slowly without opening the case to check on it. Sometimes the waiting is the hardest part, but when cold a sudden rush of warm air can crack the finish right before your eyes. Take a marble out of the freezer and drop it in warm water, same same.

[Jeff Mando]

I reread your post three times, but still am not sure about what you are describing. Evidently, you are working away from home in the wilderness for two weeks at a time and I assume you are sleeping in tents, sleeping bags, etc. In this case, I would bring my cheapo mandolin, just to be safe and not worry. Otherwise, if you are just traveling for work and staying in motels and your vehicle has heat during the day while traveling, I would bring my good mandolin and keep it in the motel at night, not in the car. This is basically what a touring band does.

[foldedpath]

+1 on making sure it's a very gradual warm up if the environment is below freezing.

The finish on the top and back of my Santa Cruz acoustic guitar shows a fine network of cracks (just the finish, not the wood). It happened one night when we were driving cross-country and stayed overnight at a motel, somewhere in North Dakota during the winter. Very cold night, I'm sure it was sub-freezing. The guitar was in one of several guitar cases stashed in the back seat of our pickup truck, loosely covered with jackets and other stuff. I thought the temperature wouldn't drop that far inside the cab overnight, so I didn't bother to bring them all into the motel room.

The damage probably happened when I fired up the truck's heater in the morning when we took off again. The finish on the Santa Cruz couldn't keep up with the movement of the wood, so it did the "craquelure" thing. This was 15 years ago and I still play the guitar, it's just cosmetic damage.

I'm not sure more insulation would have helped. With the heater bringing up the cab's temperature a good 50 degrees (F), the guitar case would have had to be inside an insulated cooler or something to slow down that change. The guitar might actually have been safer if it was in the pickup bed under the fiberglass topper, just exposed to fairly steady ambient temperatures on the trip.

This won't happen the same way with every instrument. An adjacent guitar had no damage to the finish at all, because it was an old 1970's Guild acoustic with a much thicker finish. So this might not be an issue with a cheap instrument and a thick finish. Watch out for the expensive ones with a thin finish.

P.S. I'm not sure an Ovation is the answer. The wooden top and bracing wants to move when the temperature/humidity changes, and that fiberglass bowl back won't move at all.

[J.Albert]

OP wrote:
"For the record my next stint of travel and work will have me in Colorado, Utah, Southern California, and back to Colorado from January to May, so there will definitely be low humidity problems and big temperature swings."

If you're going to leave it in the car for extended periods of time in the heat or in the cold, take the cheap one.

'Nuff said on this topic...

[teleman73]

Thanks everyone, thanks for the input. While I'm glad to have a few more tools for managing my instrument in my car, due to not being able to check on it at all for several weeks at a time it seems like the prudent decision will be to bring the beater and leave the good one somewhere safe.

[Mark Wilson]

When I travel with a mandolin, I take it with me when I leave the car. If I was spending time/living outdoors I would had to rethink that. Maybe check with small music shops in advance and work out a solution to leave it there. There is always a way around if you want it.

[Tom Haywood]

A quick google search found this:

"At 70 degrees on a sunny day, after a half hour, the temperature inside a car is 104 degrees. After an hour, it can reach 113 degrees. When temperatures outside range from 80 degrees to 100 degrees, the temperature inside a car parked in direct sunlight can quickly climb to between 130 to 172."

My own rule of thumb is to be extremely careful leaving a string instrument in the car when the outside temperature is above 85 degrees. Titebond glue releases around 135 degrees. Hide glue releases around 150 degrees. Glues may possibly weaken at lesser temperatures over a longer period of time. Humidity makes a difference.

I have a mental image of you returning from the wilderness to find a grizzly sitting on the hood strumming your mandolin.