Sustain

[Hany Hayek]

I recently started playing classical guitar. One of the basic techniques is to damp the bass notes, to mute the strings.
Now when I play my bowl back, arpeggios for example and I play the bass G and end up four notes later on the treble E string while my G is still ringing...
On the mandolin it doesn't sound too bad, however sometimes it's a little bit annoying
Would like to hear from others here about this

[Beanzy]

I use the little finger when damping the wound strings, but haven't needed more than a lift of the fretting finger for the unwound courses. On the Calace the G needs constant attention to keep it under control.
On the mandoloncello I have to use heel-damping on the right hand as the strings have such a large travel distance and momentum that the little finger isn't enough on its own and just makes a zinging noise if not assisted by the right hand.

[JeffD]

My Weber Aspen II has sustain for days.

Its useful for hammer ons and pull offs, and some melody / counter melody playing, but just as often I have to damp the strings.

So far I have found it easier to damp strings with the fretting hand, just by pulling back without removing my finger. But I can see where it would depend on a number of things, like the effect you want to achieve, and what other notes are involved etc. I have started to do strumming hand damping, with the heel of my hand or with the side. But I am still awkward at it.

Massive sustain also affects fingering choices. On this mandolin I often go up the neck even when other choices are more readily available, because sticking to one string sounds more consistent than moving over and managing the sustain.

I just reconciled with myself that an instrument with insane sustain has to be "managed" a little differently. Its a feature, not a problem.

[David L]

Using the edge of the heel of your picking hand is a good way to fix this problem. Electric guitar players do that a lot to keep the bass strings from sympathetically vibrating. I do the same on my Banjo-mandolin to keep the bass strings from echoing. The clearness of tone is amazing. If you angle your hand correctly, the heel will lightly touch the unused strings no matter which string (except the lowest) is being played. This also allows you to contact the instrument without planting or brushing your pinkie.

[dhergert]

While the build of the mandolin itself probably has the most to do with sustain, it is also something that can be affected by setup. Two things that make a difference with setup are the string drop-off angle of the bridge and the nut as the strings go toward the fingerboard, and the weight of the tailpiece. The material that the nut is made of can also make a difference for sustain with open strings. And of course the type of strings also make a difference.

Regarding drop off angle, usually the sharper angle increases sustain -- meaning the smaller the actual string-bed surface is, the less string vibration is wasted on trying to vibrate against solid material. But this smaller-string-bed concept has to be weighed against tone balance and physical support for the mandolin's high tension strings. Experimentation usually means having an extra bridge or an extra nut in the wings to allow comparison of tone.

Regarding tailpiece weight, while that's still up for debate, there is some evidence that to some point a heavier support at the tailpiece may suppress overtones, and that a heavier tailpiece where the strings leave it can apply more string pressure against the bridge. Again, experimentation would mean having multiple tailpieces to test out.

In setup, I usually seek the most sustain possible. A person can always suppress sustain while playing, but a person can't dynamically add sustain to a mandolin that doesn't have much. Fingerboard muting techniques work well on the mandolin, as does muting with the picking hand against the bridge.

[JeffD]

In setup, I usually seek the most sustain possible. A person can always suppress sustain while playing, but a person can't dynamically add sustain to a mandolin that doesn't have much. Fingerboard muting techniques work well on the mandolin, as does muting with the picking hand against the bridge.

That makes sense to me.

The longer the sustain the slower the decline in volume - in general this seems right. That means that you have some opportunity to play a few notes in there, without having to pick them, just by fingering them, and the volume decrease is not all that perceptible. What I mean is, you don't have to let it ring full out to take advantage of it.

I find for example that Irish triples (at least when on the same string) are easier on an instrument with great sustain, and I can get them in there without losing the rhythm of the tune because its all done with the left hand.

[Richard Mott]

An argument can be made that even too much sustain is a good thing because it's there if you want it and you can always back it off when you don't. But in practice, I think it makes most sense to have your instrument's natural "speaking voice" be as close as possible to the sound you want as a player. Having to "manage" sustain affects everything else you do and comes at a price. I once owned a "too much sustain" instrument and sold it for one whose notes lasted just right for 95% of my playing, and it was as if a great burden had been lifted. I could focus on the content of what I was playing rather than on the delivery.

[mandroid]

Embellishments Like Hammer ons and Pull offs are definitely aided when the picked original note has sustain.

[CES]

Maybe it doesn't have too much sustain, you're just displaying superhuman speed on your arpeggios

I'd like to say I have the same problem, but anyone who's heard me play would know I'm lying

[Hany Hayek]

Thank you all, great feed back. The only string ringing for too long are the bass G and sometimes the D.
yes sustain helps a lot for embellishments, pull offs and hammer ons.
I've been playing for five years and never thought that you have to damp the G at some point.
I am not that fast, but it does ring sometimes all the way through a phrase. You'll also get some sympathetic sounds.
So if you are playing Bach cello suite 1 the prelude with a violin the moment your bow stops no more sound. if you are doing it with the mandolin you'll have the empty string keeping you company till you are done. It does sound rich and nice most of the time, gives a sense of polyphony.

[dhergert]

Hany, have you tried different strings for your mandolin?

This is assuming you're happy with your A and E courses... Perhaps try slightly smaller gauge G and D courses that would allow those strings to slip more deeply into the string slots in the bridge, which should slightly suppress the sustain with those strings.

Or perhaps try using flatwound or FlatTop strings for those wound courses.

Of course you could change all of your strings if you want to experiment more.

Alternatively you could slightly deepen the string slots in the bridge itself for the G and D courses, but that is a change that you cannot undo, and it would also affect your action, so I would not recommend trying this unless you have a spare bridge that you could use if you didn't like the deeper grooves. It is much easier and much safer to try different strings as mentioned above.