How many of you have successfully changed your hand position?

[fernmando]

I find myself intrigued by the way certain players play, and when I see tutorials I sometimes try to "do it how they are doing it". I am a very seasoned player (40 years) and I have no trouble playing. BUT...like anyone else, if there's a better way I am intrigued by it. Thile, Compton and Steffey are the big three who have made me feel like I want to change the way I do things...not to sound like them but to sound like ME, only better.
Have any of you ever embarked on such a project and had enough discipline to see it through? Gotten better as a result? This question was inspired from an archived post from Charlie Derrington where he said he had to "change his hand position".

Roscoe Morgan

[Bertram Henze]

Depends: which hand? I changed my picking hand position several times and improved every time. Not because that was how "somebody else is doing it", but because I understood why it might be better and tried.

I think if the change is driven by a real need and you have no choice, discipline comes naturally.

[OldSausage]

I did a major change to my pick grip once. I was holding the pick with the ends of my fingers and thumb, and I changed to the more usual grip where the pick is between the first finger knuckle and thumb. I had been playing mandolin for about 5 years at the time, although I had also played guitar that way for many years. It took about a month or two to adapt to the new grip so that I was confident using it in performances as well as while practicing, but it seemed to offer advantages within a couple of weeks. It was a little awkward at first, but I don't feel like it was very difficult to make the change.

[fernmando]

I meant picking hand...should have been more clear.

[AlanN]

I attended a Butch Baldassari 3-day World of Mandolin seminar in 1994. Watching - up-close - Butch, Ronnie M., Roland White, Mike Compton and how they picked helped me big-time. They all played with a loose but controlled hand/wrist. Got me on the right path.

[GTison]

Ditto Old Sausages post. I think I had played closer to 10 years though. I got started from reading a Frets magazine article by David Grisman. I just did it from looking at videos and pictures from magazines etc of Bill Monroe's grip.

[twilson]

Just got back from Maryville. Visiting my three nieces and their kids.

I, too, have been playing 40+ years. I think it was John McGann in an interview that talked about the angle of your pick in relation to the strings. For years, I wore my mando kind of low which caused the pick, on attack, to not hit the strings squarely. Hope that makes sense.

I started working hard on my mando playing again, but I was slouching in the couch while noodling and working out stuff, something that is generally not a good idea, but it's was comfy. Anyway, I noticed an improvement in my tone and dexterity. I noticed my forearm layed across the mando just above the tail piece and the pick was pretty much parallel to the strings.

So, I tightened up the strap to approximate my arm position when I was slouching and think its an improvement.

Don't think there is any one approach that fits everybody. But, yes, you can change.

Hope this helps.

Tim

[Jim Garber]

Like Tim and others, I, too, have been playing 40+ years. I think I always try different things. A few years back I was playing mostly bowlbacks so that required a change in both left and right hand techniques. At one point I was playing classical with a Roman style pick which is definitely way different from the way I played before. Up until a few months ago I was using a smaller jazz-shaped pick (mostly Blue Chip) for the most part for my general playing but have switched to a Wegen BN-120. These different picks change my approach to right hand playing tho I have been pretty much sticking to the approach of "loose but controlled hand/wrist" as AlanN noted above. In my haphazard practice sessions I play slowly in the beginning and experiment with various looseness in grip and note the tonal variations.

[Paul Busman]

I was a confirmed pinky planter for years, as the polished spot on my matte finish mandolins will testify. After a Chris Thile concert from his Bach tour I was impressed with how freely he used his whole arm. I've largely succeeded in limiting my pinky planting and my playing has definitely improved.

[Shelagh Moore]

Another 40+ years player here. I used to be a pinky planter for most of that time but have gradually adapted so as to do it rarely now. In general, I'm on a quest for continually refining my technique and achieving better tone and expression on the basis that "there's always room for improvement".

[Mandomax]

I made the switch from resting my right palm on the bridge as an anchor to a free right hand, after reading interviews with many players I respected who advocated this. The transition was difficult for a month- I had to go back to the old way for a gig during that time as I felt as if I was flailing all bout and my speed wasn't up to snuff. After committing fully for a month, the benefits were huge and apparent- much bigger and better tone, faster speed, better tremolo, and the strings lasted longer, since I wasn't resting my sweaty hand there. I say go for it if you have the time and dedication. What won't work is if you vacillate between the two approaches. In fact, it was mandocafe's own F5journl who began me on this quest, as he wrote a very thoughtful post about pulling tone based on this. Thank you, Darryl!

[foldedpath]

My mandolin is very sensitive to any pressure at all on the bridge. It sounds "tight" and with lower volume if there is even a little pressure from the edge of my palm on the strings behind the bridge while I pick. With my hand floating while I pick, it opens up and sounds louder, warmer, and more resonant.

So you'd think I might have learned how to keep my hand off the bridge. But, nope.

It's a continuing struggle. I seem to need at least a little anchor reference, especially when playing fast and when not looking at the instrument. I'll still keep working at it, but at this point I'm not sure if it's a habit I can break.

Lately I've considered adding a finger rest, which the mandolin didn't originally have, but I don't know if I could transition to a pinky contact as a reference point. That might be just another crutch.

[mandolegs]

I did a major change to my pick grip once. I was holding the pick with the ends of my fingers and thumb, and I changed to the more usual grip where the pick is between the first finger knuckle and thumb. I had been playing mandolin for about 5 years at the time, although I had also played guitar that way for many years. It took about a month or two to adapt to the new grip so that I was confident using it in performances as well as while practicing, but it seemed to offer advantages within a couple of weeks. It was a little awkward at first, but I don't feel like it was very difficult to make the change.

This is almost exactly the situation I'm going through right now. There's no doubt that my playing will be much improved once I've transitioned. I was really running into a wall with speed and control holding the pick this way. What I'm wondering though in your case is did you make the change on guitar as well? I can see on the mandolin the benefits right away. On the guitar it's more of a struggle. I just mostly strum on guitar, no flatpicking.

[Br1ck]

As a relative newbie, I find my right hand just barely grazing the bridge. Hardly any pressure at all. Should I be striving to be completely clear of it? My guitar style is to often palm mute bass strings for that Johnny Cash thunk bass tone, since my 65 Epiphone Texan has bass to burn.

I don't want to ingraine any bad habits.

[mandomurph]

The thing that affects my tone the most is tension in my hands and wrist. I'm constantly working on keeping the hands relaxed and using as little pressure on gripping the pick and fretting the strings as I can. If the picking hand tightens up , the fretting hand also tightens. I don't see any good players with tight hands.

[foldedpath]

As a relative newbie, I find my right hand just barely grazing the bridge. Hardly any pressure at all. Should I be striving to be completely clear of it? My guitar style is to often palm mute bass strings for that Johnny Cash thunk bass tone, since my 65 Epiphone Texan has bass to burn.

I don't want to ingraine any bad habits.

I used palm muting extensively when playing electric guitar, and I still use it off and on when strumming acoustic guitar for Irish trad backup, as an expressive technique. It's a guitar thing.

But mandolin is a different beast. The sustain is already so short that there are few applications for palm muting (there is a different type of muting involved in a quick-release of the left hand fingers for a Bluegrass chop chord). So I would say as a general rule, try to avoid contact with the bridge if you can manage it. Even if you don't hear a difference with your current mandolin, you might one day play one that is very sensitive to bridge pressure.

BTW, I know there is one video by Mike Marshall where he mentions a light contact behind the bridge, but I guess he has more control than I do, because I can't seem to do this in a way that doesn't alter the tone. Here's that video for reference:

[Denny Gies]

After a workshop with Mike Compton I tried to change my right hand but had absolutely no luck.

[Br1ck]

After playing for a couple of hours since last posting, I really only lightly brush the bridge. I can't imagine any damping of tone. I think an armrest really lessened the pressure on the bridge.

[Charles E.]

When I bought my Girouard F-5 it did not come with a pick guard (my other mandolins have one and I am used to them) so after watching the Mike Marshall video (some time ago) I changed my right hand position. I used to play with an open hand and some light pinky planting but now I play with a loose fist and my playing has been better for it. Also, now my contact with the top is eliminated so no wear on the finish.

[Bertram Henze]

My pick grip went a long way from tweezers-style via curled index to adding more fingers and now being a quite firm fist minus the pinky, which limply brushes along and serves as a position sensor. Every step was neccessary to increase volume and speed.

[GTison]

Friends, I should have said how long it took me to change. It took about a year to get comfortable with the new way to grip the pick. It was also very difficult to keep my pick point down. I just could not play anything as quick as I had been playing before. I was very frustrated because I thought I was beginning to play like I wanted and here I was taking a step back. I felt for the style I wanted to play, changing would be important. I still believe that it was a major improvement. There were several sound benefits to changing. But not all great mandolin players hold the pick the same way. But the way they grip the pick is part of their sound I would bet.