Help determining the age of a Harmony Monterey

[robinshanson]

I recently acquired a Harmony Monterey at a yard sale. I fixed it up, replaced the bridge and have a beautiful mandolin.

There are 2 serial numbers:

On the right NHV

On the left 1190H410

From what I have seen on this forum the 1190H410 is a serial plus model type, the H410.

The NHV is my question. What does that indicate? Apparently there is usually a year plus a one letter code for the first or second half of the year, eg F-65 for first half of 1965.

The only thing I know about the history is that the original player of the mandolin owned a music store in the 60s.

Any idea what NHV is?

Regards,

Robin

[MikeEdgerton]

The first thing is that Harmony didn't use serial numbers. The number with the H in the middle is a model number. The NHV I have never seen but it still can be dated approximately. Can you post a picture of the tuners from the back of the headstock?

[Phil Goodson]

These things are interesting. I also have a Harmony Monterey said to be from the sixties. There are 2 sets of numbers inside my mandolin: 4451H417 & UV-S2S. None of that made any sense to me.

You mentioned that the H417 might indicate the model. My 4451 number might suggest that mine was made later in the sixties than yours (or not). Big Joe, who sold me the mandolin on consignment from a friend of his, said that my mandolin was probably about 1964. I don't know whether that was a guess or based on more information.

So it could suggest that you have an early 1960s model. I don't know what the differences were in models H410 & H417.
I'd still love to hear any information on what my other number (UV-S2S) might mean. Maybe its sunblock potential?

I'm always surprised at how nice the tone of these instruments often is, considering their cost.

[MikeEdgerton]

Give me a shot of the tuners on yours. Harmony changed tuners in the late 60's. Harmony used all solid woods right up until just before the very end.

[robinshanson]

Thank you for your offer of assistance. I have posted a couple of photos.

[bennyb]

Howdy all,

I am not the OP, but in the interest of historical documentation, I'll offer some photos of my Harmony Monterey. The only stamped number I can find is 1706H417. I bought it in the 80's?, and have no idea of its history or origin. It resembles the OP's in the pickguard and tailpiece, but does not have the segmented s/f holes or the faux graining.

The front:


The back:


The head:


benny

[MikeEdgerton]

Those tuners date that mandolin back a few decades from when you think it was built. It looks pretty much like this 1936 Catalog page although the catalog image shows a kidney shaped tailpiece cover. Most of these were shipped over the years with your same Waverly Cloud tailpiece. My guesstimate is 30's to 40's. By the 60's they were using different tuners. I could be wrong and it might be later but I don't think so.

[MikeEdgerton]

Howdy all,

I am not the OP, but in the interest of historical documentation, I'll offer some photos of my Harmony Monterey. The only stamped number I can find is 1706H417. I bought it in the 80's?, and have no idea of its history or origin. It resembles the OP's in the pickguard and tailpiece, but does not have the segmented s/f holes or the faux graining.

The front:


The back:


The head:


benny

Benny, are their any other numbers stamped inside, specifically one that starts with F or S? These tuners make this later than the OP's.

[bennyb]

Howdy Mike,

I've tried different lighting and magnification, so as to see "the other numbers", but they aren't there. No reason to think that the case is original, but it might be - light weight pasteboard? - the handle is the most substatial part.

Monterey Case:

[MikeEdgerton]

Howdy Mike,

I've tried different lighting and magnification, so as to see "the other numbers", but they aren't there. No reason to think that the case is original, but it might be - light weight pasteboard? - the handle is the most substatial part.

Monterey Case:

The factory didn't ship in cases as far as I know, they were generally an add on at the music store. I'd put this in the late 50's to mid 60's. It isn't going to look much different than the late 60's early 70's models with the exception of the tuners. A Harmony without the date code is pretty much a WAG but you can get close with the tuners. There isn't a whole lot of documentation. You can find some dated catalog pages in one of the social groups dedicated to ads.

[dustyamps]

I upgraded my Monterey with a better adjustable bridge and tuners. This is stamped HVC and 1808H410.

[MikeEdgerton]

I have no idea when they used those letters to determine anything. I'm wondering if they were a date code at one time. We'd need a number of them to see if it was a code. Two examples won't do it. These do appear to be from the same era although there's no help with the tuners. Have you got the originals by chance?

[brunello97]

Interesting catalog page you posted, Mike. I had thought the "faux finish" topped Montereys were the later ones but clearly they were pulling that off long ago. (And I keep wanting to spell it with two Rs like the NMexican city and the Sinatra / Dawg tune.)

Were some of these laminate tops and some solid? If so did that change over time or was always the case? Looks like the type face on the headstock changed / modernized at some point as well.

A friend had a Harmony archtop years ago which was being used as a coat rack for a long time. The guy decided to put it back in to use and it was actually a pretty nice guitar iirc. Don't recall the model but it looks like one of the H1456 models.

I ought to get myself one of these, if for no other reason than for the Sinatra song, the nutty 3/4 Dawg version y todos mis amigos from Monterrey.

Mick

[dustyamps]

My Monterey was missing the original tuners when I acquired it.

[MikeEdgerton]

Interesting catalog page you posted, Mike. I had thought the "faux finish" topped Montereys were the later ones but clearly they were pulling that off long ago. (And I keep wanting to spell it with two Rs like the NMexican city and the Sinatra / Dawg tune.)

Were some of these laminate tops and some solid? If so did that change over time or was always the case? Looks like the type face on the headstock changed / modernized at some point as well.

A friend had a Harmony archtop years ago which was being used as a coat rack for a long time. The guy decided to put it back in to use and it was actually a pretty nice guitar iirc. Don't recall the model but it looks like one of the H1456 models.

I ought to get myself one of these, if for no other reason than for the Sinatra song, the nutty 3/4 Dawg version y todos mis amigos from Monterrey.

Mick

Harmony was all solid woods up until just before the time they closed in 1975. The only exception was electric guitars. Kay sold laminated instruments as a feature as far back as the 30's. Harmony never did that. Surprisingly Harmony got away from the Faux finish at the end but they were still doing it in the early 60's.

[MikeEdgerton]

My Monterey was missing the original tuners when I acquired it.

Well, we can't use that then.

[fernmando]

A student of mine has a 1947 Harmony Monterey. It's actually a better-than-decent sounding mandolin. I learned on a late '60s. Same story.

[MikeEdgerton]

Several moved through my fingers. All had necks that were substantial, say close to a baseball bat. The only thing I can say that ever failed me was the bridges on the later Monterey models tended to sag after a few years. Beyond that they were well constructed, unlike their cross town cousins at Kay that had neck joint failures on a regular basis. The models made from the late 60's until they closed used the funky high ratio Grover tuners that in theory should have been great for fine tuning but in practice were annoying.

[Dan Adams]

Another thread sending me to find a mandolin that I haven't pulled out of the closet for quite some time. My first mandolin purchase in 1973 from Charles Sawtelle at the Denver Folklore Center, a Harmony, much like the pictures Benny posted. All solid woods. I thought they made an oval hole with painted binding that was laminate? There's one for sale for ($249.00 really?) at a local used music store, I should go check. Must be 'vintage?' Stenciled in blue ink in my Harmony is serial number 3216H8010. Needs strings but I have to find a cheap set. I would hate to have strings on my mandolin with more that's the instrument! One more detail; brass frets or some such alloy.

[MikeEdgerton]

That's a model number and yes, they were all wood up until the very end when they imported a few from Asia.

[DavidKOS]

That's a model number and yes, they were all wood up until the very end when they imported a few from Asia.

Like the model design made in Japan, then Korea, than China or wherever, with a many labels including "Kay"? Heat-pressed top, laminated mostly?

My import is a Kay and sounds pretty good for a mandolin I paid 40 bucks for. Most of this design were sub-par.

One of these, surprisingly:

not this one, but looks a lot like it

[Verne Andru]

I'm no Harmony expert but I believe they changed the logo design from time to time. You could check through this Harmony catalog of guitars and things and see if you can find something close. That might give you a ball-park:

http://harmony.demont.net/

[MikeEdgerton]

Keep in mind that a lot of them didn't have a brand name on them. The Monterey logo looked pretty much the same from the 30's on.

[Durstlaw]

Keep in mind that a lot of them didn't have a brand name on them. The Monterey logo looked pretty much the same from the 30's on.

I can’t find any numbers at all on my harmony Monterey. The tuners need some fixing, and I’m wondering how to clean them up. This mandolin seems old, the tuners are rusted, and I’m wondering whether I should just replace them. Might be hard to get a fit though if they’re really old, I’m guessing. I see you know about the tuners. Can you give me any suggestions?

[MikeEdgerton]

Without actually seeing the tuners it's hard to offer advice but the late Paul Hostetter's page on his website offers some tips on getting them working, assuming you can get cleaned up a bit.

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html