Rubners for a Collings MT

[DJM83]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but a search of the forum didn't return any obvious results.

I am considering replacing the Golden Age tuners on my Collings MT. The tuning stability is fine, but I find them stiff to use. I am considering Rubner tuners as a replacement. The Rubner base plate is marginally smaller than the stewmac and has 5 screws as opposed to 3. I am assuming that the post spacing will be identical.

Does anyone have experience of fitting Rubners to an MT? Waverlies are of course an option, but they are difficult to get in the UK.

Thank you in advance
Duncan

[nickster60]

Have you tried to lube your tuners? I haven't had an issue with mandolins but over the years there have been suggestions here on the cafe. I am sure someone will elaborate on the correct lubricant to use. It is worth a short.

[bernabe]

I've used the Golden Age tuners numerous times before with some sets smoother than others, but have never used Rubners. A friend just put some on a new build last week and none of the sets of Golden Age tuners Ive bought were as smooth as these. Very nice for the price.

[Jstring]

This issue has come up for a lot of people, myself included (super-stiff tuners on a Collings MF).

If you contact Collings, they will graciously arrange for you to get a new set of tuners from Stew Mac. They might not be quite as nice as Rubners, but it won't cost you a dime. My replacement set of Golden Age tuners took 5 minutes to swap out and were very smooth....

[Jstring]

From other posts I've read, the Rubner tuners would fit the pre-existing holes, but the bushings won't fit unless the holes are reamed. ( somebody please correct me if this is wrong)

[Marty Jacobson]

From other posts I've read, the Rubner tuners would fit the pre-existing holes, but the bushings won't fit unless the holes are reamed. ( somebody please correct me if this is wrong)

That's correct. You don't have to swap out the bushings, the Golden Age bushings work fine. The Rubner bushings just look nicer, albeit less traditional.

[DJM83]

Thank you all. This is all very helpful. I have lubricated and adjusted the tuners and they are still very stiff.

[Oliver A.]

Before buying new tuners, I would remove the tuners you have and try cleaning and lubing them. Here is my preferred lube for tuners.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...415,43440&ap=1

I spray it directly on the worm and cog with the tuners off the mandolin. I use a Q-tip with some of the lube on it to lube the insert bushings. Don't get the wet lube on your finish. The great thing about this lube is that it is very thin as it comes out of the can so it penetrates. Then, the carrier solvent flashes of, leaving a more substantial grease.

While the tuners are off of the mandolin, try turning them to feel how stiff they are. If they are not stiff when off of the mandolin, your issue could be improperly spaced and/or aligned holes in the peghead.

I've been using Golden Age tuners (among others) for a couple of years now and I have had no issues with them. I've also used Rubners and have had an issue with one set which they took care of right away.
Also, Schaller will be coming out with a "Grand Tune" version of their mandolin tuners in December. If they are as good as their Grand Tune guitar tuners, I expect them to be as good or better than anything on the market for around the same price as Rubners.

'hope this helps.

[lloving]

I am a Rubner fan. I replaced stock tuners on my Weber Yellowstone. Not that the old tuners on my Weber were a real problem the Rubners appear to me to be an improvement.

[Neoclinus]

I recently got a set of Rubners, and also having a set of Waverly tuners on one of my instruments I have to say that the machining and smoothness are first rate, and not noticeably lower quality than the Waverlys. Far and above any other tuners in their price range, with no "play" at all. Not to mention they're beautiful to look at.

I got them for a mandola I recently finished, and had set up the mandola initially with a set of Schallers due to the wait time for the Rubners (and being impatient...) So while I can't speak to a swap with Golden Age, I can say that at least for replacing the Schallers the post holes were a drop-in fit, and even the screw holes were spot on. Like others have said the bushings aren't the same size so I left the bushings I started with on the instrument, but unless you're changing the metal dramatically (polished nickel to flat brass for example) you probably won't notice much of a difference.

Good luck!

[Mark Wilson]

I had builder replace GA tuners for Rubner on an A5. The Rubners had extra mounting screw(s) and there was a one minute shadow line remaining from GA's at the bottom of the mounted Rubners. Takes a very close inspection to see. I believe (therefore I might be wrong) he left the GA bushings in place. Smoother in every regard. Look great also

[Jill McAuley]

I know there's a cafe member (Colorado Al perhaps?) with an MT who replaced the stock tuners with Rubners - hopefully he'll see this thread! I've been thinking of doing the same thing with my MT-O as well.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Would Gotoh tuners fit the Golden Age tuner bushings etc. ?. I ask because my Ellis "A" style has Gotohs on it & they work as smooth as could be wished for. Gotohs are also available from 'Tonetech' in Stockport. http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.c...q=gotoh+tuners

One tip - try the 'tune up' advised by Frank Ford on his Frets.com page :- http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...geartune3.html That worked on my Weber Fern mandolin - Schaller tuners.

The Schallers on my Lebeda are the smoothest of all 3,
Ivan

[Mandobar]

Be very careful if you decide not to replace the bushings. I had someone install Alessis on one of my mandolas and he did not replace the bushings. After a while I started having issues with the tuners locking up. I took the mandola to my luthier and what he found is that the posts are metric and there is too much room between them and the bushings. After a while the shafts rubbing against the bushings from all the tension on the strings. If the shafts on the Rubners are metric, make sure the bushings are too. Too much play around the shaft plus the tension from the strings spells trouble long term.

[colorado_al]

I know there's a cafe member (Colorado Al perhaps?) with an MT who replaced the stock tuners with Rubners - hopefully he'll see this thread! I've been thinking of doing the same thing with my MT-O as well.

I've been on the road for a while. Just back in town. I did swap the tuners on my Collings MT and the Rubner tuners are first rate! No need to bore out the holes or change bushings. Only need to fill some of the screw holes from the GA with toothpick or matchstick in order to get purchase with the smaller screws for the Rubner tuners.
Here they are



Also here:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...=1#post1479697

[Eric C.]

Kind of off-topic (kind of on-topic too, I guess). Will Rubner tuners be a good replacement for the Gotoh tuners on my Kentucky KM-950? I tried to search but haven't had luck finding a thread about Gotoh/Rubner swap.

Thanks!

[Rustyback]

KM 950 are worm under tuners, I do not think that Rubner makes these ??
The period correct bushings on the KM does not support the shafts at all and provides malfunction.
I changed the bushings to Rubner bushings, added Tri Flow and now the Gotohs work fine.
Though,they are not Rubners ( I have a set on another mando )
Jens

[bernabe]

KM 950 are worm under tuners, I do not think that Rubner makes these ??
Jens

I just recieved a worm under set direct from Kent on Monday, however they are for F5 and they will be getting worm over for F5 next shipment. You could check to see if they offer both for all types of swap outs.

[Hubs]

I just put my new Rubner (worm under) on my Weber Yellowstone F5, just to realise , they are the "reverse" type of tuners. That means, they turn the other way round.
If you don't like that, you should check that out before buying.
But with their rosewood knobs, they are extremly beautiful and they work very smothly.

[HoGo]

Be very careful if you decide not to replace the bushings. I had someone install Alessis on one of my mandolas and he did not replace the bushings. After a while I started having issues with the tuners locking up. I took the mandola to my luthier and what he found is that the posts are metric and there is too much room between them and the bushings. After a while the shafts rubbing against the bushings from all the tension on the strings. If the shafts on the Rubners are metric, make sure the bushings are too. Too much play around the shaft plus the tension from the strings spells trouble long term.

Well, your luthier is not understanding how tuners work, it seems...
The tuner posts MUST lean against bushings so the plate at the hole for the post is not taking all the load of string tension. Bushings are there to avoid wear on wood (often seen on istruments without bushings). If the spacing is correct (which I assume it is between Collings and rubners) and bushings are bit oversized (they must be) and tuners were installed so the post gently touch the the nut side of bushings then your problem lies elsewhere.
Sometimes makers drill stepped hole and the bottom of the hole in wood is holding the post (especially when the hole was drilled perpendicular to bottom of tapered headstock and bushing is driven in perpendicular to top surface), sometimes the wood just swells from over oiling of dirt and keeps the post from free turning which is not always evident without strings (the effect is exaggerated when tension is applied and posts get skewed tiny bit).

[Gary Leonard]

Just ordered a set of Rubner tuners for my MT-O. Resurrecting this thread so I can come back to it and bug Al if I have any issues.

[Nick Gellie]

I stuck with the Elite tuners with my Collings MT. I got a replacement set under warranty from Stewmac.

There was a strange buzzing noise with the old set. There are no such buzzing noises with the new set and they turn just fine. No problems with tuning either with the new Elite set. I there fore had no problems with the holes this way.

[djeffcoat]

Depending on the age of your MT, there was a period when the GA tuners were faulty and Collings would have you contact Stew-Mac to get a replacement/exchange for the tuners. My 2014 MT tuners were very stiff and I got replacements from Stew-Mac that are much smoother. I would contact Collings and ask them. BTW, I was not the original owner of the mandolin. I bought it on consignment at a good price. I think that was one of the reasons the original owner sold it. When I removed the old tuners, there was oil under them. I would not recommend oiling the tuners.

[fscotte]

First time trying on new build. Don't like em. Feels like more friction in tuning. Grovers feel much better.

Also the slotted screws looked very much like the cheapo gold ones you find at Lowes. Well, one broke off first time screwing it in leaving me with the task of drilling the rest of it out of my headstock. Ugh. This was the last screw to install so now I'm scared of what's going to happen when I try to remove the others. Not impressed.

[bernabe]

First time trying on new build. Don't like em. Feels like more friction in tuning..

How long ago did you buy them and did you get them directly through Kent [Rubner]. I decided to try them and pulled the trigger on a set back in January and installed a few weeks ago...top G string wouldn't even bring tension up. Bottom D string tuner has 3/4 turn of play but works. I contacted Kent and he stated they had redesigned the rollers and had problems which lead to pulling current stock and sending back to shop. Your issue doesnt seem the same as mine, however maybe yours were part of the defective batch. I did check out a set on a friends mando prior to buying and was impressed on how smooth and solid they felt while operating under tension.