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Thread: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

  1. #26
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    All complaints about the regrettable sales hype aside -- regardless of who generated this hype, and why! -- I am genuinely interested in how this pick compares to a BlueChip (say, the CT55 model). It would be great for someone on the MC to carry out some A/B comparisons.

    These folks are asking the same price as a BlueChip ($35), so it seems likely that either the I-Tone is made from some equivalently costly, exotic material (such as a type of polyimide) or their profit margin is extraordinarily high.

    If anyone has information on the material used to make this pick, I would be keenly interested.

  2. #27
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    These folks are asking the same price as a BlueChip ($35), so it seems likely that either the I-Tone is made from some equivalently costly, exotic material (such as a type of polyimide) or their profit margin is extraordinarily high.

    If anyone has information on the material used to make this pick, I would be keenly interested.
    My view is that it is not my business why they charge what they charge. I concern myself with whether it is worth the asking price to me. If it isn't then, I don't care if they are made of gold. And if they work and I like them and they benefit me more than the cost, then I don't care if they cost the manufacturer a penny a piece.
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  4. #28
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Egerton View Post
    The real question will be, can these demand the same kind of endless arguing that the BC has blessed us with?
    Yes. With any luck at all.
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  5. #29
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    My view is that it is not my business why they charge what they charge. I concern myself with whether it is worth the asking price to me. If it isn't then, I don't care if they are made of gold. And if they work and I like them and they benefit me more than the cost, then I don't care if they cost the manufacturer a penny a piece.
    Gee JeffD -- but then, you miss all the fun! Truth be told, the MC is filled with endless speculation about the prices -- and values -- of all things related to the mandolin. Why are Gibson Lloyd Loars so expensive, and are they worth it? How can Gilchrists and Nuggets and Dudenbostels command such prices? Which low-end mandolins offer the best value? What's the best instrument in the middle price range? Are Thomastik strings worth the price? Coated strings? Are BlueChip picks worth it? And so on. Most of us here are very much concerned about prices and value. That's because we are not arbitrarily wealthy, and we therefore have to make difficult choices about how to spend our hard-earned cash. So we ALL ask "whether it is worth the asking price to me," exactly as you do!! And the question of whether it is "worth the price" has a great deal to do with what they charge, so I don't quite understand why you wrote that you don't care why they charge what they charge, but you obviously do care what they charge!

    Anyway, I pretty much agree with you that we all need to consider if the asking price is worthwhile to us, individually. To me, the mark-up is an important part of that consideration. To you, much less so. Items tend to be more costly when they involve large outlays for either the materials (exotic woods, plastics, etc.) or the hand labor (luthier-built instruments). I don't mind paying for such quality. I do mind paying for outrageous mark-ups, though -- for example, designer brands that offer no more quality than generic (or lesser known) ones, where you only pay for the name. That's just who I am as a consumer. I will never buy a Coach wallet or Gucci luggage.

    Yes, I am indeed willing to fork out $35 for a flatpick, and my BlueChip (which I love) is living proof of that. My back-up BlueChip pick (yow, another $35!) is evidence that I'm even willing to invest $70 in picks, and I also have a few ten's of dollars invested in other picks, including some Wegens and Dunlop PrimeTones. So I might have around $100 invested, in all. And that amount is not unusual for an MC member and mando fanatic.

    And hey, I MIGHT be willing to fork out another $35 (ouch!) if I thought the I-Tone might sound as good, or better. But first, I'd like to hear some testimony from fellow mando fanatics who have tried these. And I'd like to have some idea of what material they're made of, since I'm a scientist and that's the sort of thing I'm curious about. And, I'd like to know how similar or different these are than BlueChips.

    And finally, will these picks ever merit 100+ pages of discussion on the MC, like BC's? That's a high bar!
    Last edited by sblock; Oct-05-2016 at 3:03pm.

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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    I just got a Gravity Gold, which i think is made from a similar self lubricating polymer tho they describe it as thermoplastic. Not being a material scientist, I'm not sure if those are mutually exclusive or what. But anyway I like it a lot, tho the Sunrise shape is really really sharp so I have to adjust RH technique quite a bit.

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  7. #31
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Even at $ 35.oo we mandolin pickers have it easy compaired to violin players who have to spend hundreds of dollars for a decent bow! And no, I have not plunked down the coin for a BC yet but may in the future.
    Charley

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  8. #32
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Even at $ 35.oo we mandolin pickers have it easy compaired to violin players who have to spend hundreds of dollars for a decent bow! And no, I have not plunked down the coin for a BC yet but may in the future.
    I've been looking at cello strings, a nice set, usually a mix from 2 different brands is > $300, Helicores around $150, that's probably what i'll settle for.

    I was talking to a trumpeter friend. He's atypical in that he only has one instrument (a lot of them also have cornets and fluegelhorsn, which have different mouthpieces) and 3 mouthpieces at $40-80 a pop. But a lot of players have a dozen or more, and the deluxe ones run $100 for a Yamaha to $200-250 for a Monette.

    (Actually, cashflow wise, double reed players may have it the worst, unless they make their own, they can go thru 2-5 a month, at $20-30 a pop, something like that).
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  10. #33

    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    If plectrums [ picks ] get any more advanced in the USA pretty soon all you will have to do is show one to a mandolin and it will play by itself.

    unconvinced, Dave H
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  11. #34
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    Gee JeffD -- but then, you miss all the fun!
    Yes. Oh my yes.

    I do mind paying for outrageous mark-ups, though -- for example, designer brands
    That's where we disagree I guess. To me the designer brands are not worth it, because it is not worth the premium when I can get similar quality for much less. It has nothing, in my mind, to do with the manufacturers mark up, it is entirely that I can get similar enough and good enough for less. I don't care what either the discount brand or the designer brand makes for the manufacturer.

    If it turns out that a manufacturer can get the costs way way down below what people are willing to pay, by some clever way that is not illegal or immoral, and that maintains the quality of the item, then more power to him/her. Go for it. If the cleverness becomes public knowledge and so the competition can do similarly, well then there will be a price war and the prices come tumbling down. In the interim before the clever idea becomes public knowledge the manufacturer should "take pie while pie is passing".

    If the manufacturer cannot get costs below the price I am willing to spend, then he/she has to convince me that the higher price is justified, and specifically: why it should be worth it to me. The manufacturer is free to try and influence what I am willing to pay or why I should buy the other one for less, by telling me all kinds of things, and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. In some cases it even works.

    My point is that the manufacturer has to come up with the narrative, better more costly materials, better quality manufacturing, much much cooler heritage and mojo, whatever. But that is the manufacturers job. My job is to figure out if the object offered is worth the price at which it is offered.

    Maybe we are in violent agreement.
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  13. #35
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    In the interim before the clever idea becomes public knowledge the manufacturer should "take pie while pie is passing".
    It pays not to be an early adopter

    ...whispering sweet nothings into my ear. In some cases it even works.
    That's the one thing I tend to walk away from. Telling tall stories is equivalent to calling me stupid, and I take that personally. A pick "made from material used on the Space Shuttle"... If the pick sounds good, why do they need to invent such nincompoopery to go with it?
    Last edited by Bertram Henze; Oct-06-2016 at 4:31am.
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    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    May I be the first to say, with absolutely no knowledge of the product, that no pick is worth $35?
    A flatpick is to a mandolinist what a bow is to a violinist... an essential tool. With the best bows going anywhere from several hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars (even hundreds of thousands) I find spending $35 for the best pick I've ever used quite tolerable...

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  17. #37
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    May I be the first to say, with absolutely no knowledge of the product, that no pick is worth $35?
    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    A flatpick is to a mandolinist what a bow is to a violinist... an essential tool. With the best bows going anywhere from several hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars (even hundreds of thousands) I find spending $35 for the best pick I've ever used quite tolerable...
    As I noted above, Br1ck is joking. Someone always makes that comment when a BC or equivalently priced pick is mentioned. This is the problem with typing and why the gods of the Internet provided us with emoticons.

    It sounds like most of the folks on this thread already use BCs and other high-end picks.
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  18. #38
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    So I will interject a joke here......

    A mandolin player is walking along the beach with his instrument and finds a bottle. While cleaning the sand off, a magic Genie appears and grants the mandolin player three wishes. He thinks and replies "I would like to have a pick made from a space age material that will provide the best possible tone for my mandolin, will never wear out and can not be misplaced or lost". The Genie grants his wish and it is the most amazing pick ever! The Genie reminds him that he still has two more wishes to witch he responds 'I'll take two more just like this one".
    Charley

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  20. #39
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    A pick that's only .041" thick ???. That's a tad under 1mm (.03937 "). A decent pick needs to be pretty stiff,& in my experience, thin,stiff picks sound pretty harsh toned. I own a pick made from material 'x' which is very stiff & also very thin (1mm), & it's like playing with a piece of broken glass !. However,Shawn Lane is one of my favourite mandolin players & Blue Highway is my current favourite Bluegrass band. I can't see Shawn sacrificing any tone from his Dearstone mandolin,which is as good as any i've heard (IMHO),so something must be happening. Using a thin pick does feel comfortable in one way,it's almost as though there's nothing there & you definitely 'feel the strings'. I wouldn't mind coming into contact with one for an hour or 2,although at £38.40 UK ($48.70 US),it's not going to happen.

    In Shawn's demo,i'd have liked the room to have been more 'damped' acoustically & to have heard the tone he got with hs old pick as a comparison. To my ears,the pick did sound 'clear',but it also had the hard tone that i associate with 'thin,hard' picks. Very hard to evaluate from that demo,you'd have to try one on your own mandolin (as usual).

    Unless i heard it wrongly,i'm pretty sure that Shawn mentioned that the material was used in aircraft 'engines' ?. If that's correct,then unless it's metal (doubtful),then it must be the ceramic material that's used = one tough SOB material indeed,& no wonder it's expensive,
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    It (literally) takes a space-age material to bring out the authentic, natural sounds of mountain music!

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  23. #41
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Well we are off to a great start!
    Only a few hundred pages to go to catch up to the BC.

    Like others have said, I'd be interested to try it out, but I am mostly reluctant on the 41 thickness. The thinnest BC I have used is 50 and I like that fine on the guitar but I don't care for it on the mandolin. The thinnest pick I liked on mandolin was the 55, but have since switched back to a 60.
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    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Egerton View Post
    Well we are off to a great start!
    Only a few hundred pages to go to catch up to the BC.
    Nothing to say at the moment, just helping get the page count up
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  26. #43
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    I currently play mostly with Wegen 1mm. or BC TP40-1R. Both are stiff with no flex. Thinner picks seem to give me better accuracy so I decided to try something thinner and even pointier with this space age doohickey. Still waiting delivery.

  27. #44
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Busman View Post
    Nothing to say at the moment, just helping get the page count up
    What, is this a funding project?
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  28. #45
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    I have a feeling that they are just getting started with these new $35 picks. Maybe they bought a .041" sheet of whatever the mystery material is so they will sell all the picks they can make from that sheet.

    BTW rumors have it that the inside of the glove compartment on the space shuttle is lined with a super-material which amazing acoustic properties. Perhaps that is the material they are using.
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  29. #46
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Unless i heard it wrongly,i'm pretty sure that Shawn mentioned that the material was used in aircraft 'engines' ?. If that's correct,then unless it's metal (doubtful),then it must be the ceramic material that's used = one tough SOB material indeed,& no wonder it's expensive, Ivan)
    Actually, Ivan, you may have jumped to the wrong conclusion: it doesn't have to be ceramic or metal to be found in a jet engine -- it can be plastic, only a special plastic! One specific form of Meldin, the polyimide used in BlueChip picks, is used to make thrust bearings for jet engines, and it can withstand temperatures of up to 900 degrees before melting! So the material in I-Tones picks might be some other polyimide formulation, like Vespel or Kapton. But I thought Matt Goins patented his use of Meldin for BlueChips, and that plastic material is darker (BlueChip picks are all brown), so perhaps it's not Meldin, but some other polyimide in I-Tones, to get around the Goins patent?
    Last edited by sblock; Oct-07-2016 at 11:58am.

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  31. #47
    Fingers of Concrete ccravens's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by gtani7 View Post
    I've been looking at cello strings, a nice set, usually a mix from 2 different brands is > $300, Helicores around $150, that's probably what i'll settle for.
    I really like the Helicores on my cello. Made a big difference from the strings that the cello came with. Like you, $300 or thereabouts makes me nervous.
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  32. #48
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    A pick that's only .041" thick ???. That's a tad under 1mm (.03937 "). A decent pick needs to be pretty stiff,& in my experience,
    For playing Bluegrass, maybe...

    thin,stiff picks sound pretty harsh toned.
    Maybe, if you're playing Bluegrass...

    I own a pick made from material 'x' which is very stiff & also very thin (1mm), & it's like playing with a piece of broken glass !.
    Might be the case if you're playing Bluegrass...

    Sorry, just pulling 'yer leg here. Some of us do use thinner picks, and not all of us play Bluegrass or look for a darker tone.

    I use the 1.0mm (roughly) TAD40-1R Blue Chip for the Scottish/Cape Breton/Irish trad music I mostly play these days. Maybe it's just my technique limitations, but I can't hit the treble ornaments in that music with a thicker pick. I don't feel that I'm sacrificing anything in tone. I do angle the pick a bit on the attack, and I use slightly heavier strings on the A and E course than J74's (.016 and .0115), which may help avoid a too-thin tone.

    I do agree that this company had better offer some different thickness and shape choices if they want to go up against BC and Bear in the circa $35 pick market. Both of those companies are successful because they offer choices, not just a single magic pick.

    Are we on page three yet?

  33. #49
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    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    No.

    Not yet...
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  34. #50

    Default Re: "Space age flat pick" I-Tone

    Wouldn't the way a pick performs be not only a function of thickness, but also the inherent stiffness of the material? So perhaps a thinner pick performs similarly to a thicker pick of a different material.

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