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Thread: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

  1. #1
    Registered User McIrish's Avatar
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    Default Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I know it should be the most common thing, but it isn't. How many of us buy mandolins based on specs or advertisements or simply a picture here at the cafe? I know I've bought a couple fairly expensive mandolins without ever hearing them. In both cases, I was happy at the time but not so much after I was able to compare one on one with other higher end mandolins.

    My story
    I was on a short tour with my band and on the way back stopped in to a music store that I knew had some nice mandolins. Whenever possible, I like to sit and compare my main mandolin to what else is available. My main instrument is a Northfield Big Mon wide nut in a honey finish. It is the prettiest mandolin (at least in my opinion). It's understated with impeccable workmanship. The scroll binding is perfect. I thought that was the one for me for the rest of my life. I didn't need anything better. I was content.

    Now my prized mandolin is at a music store in another state as a trade-in. I still can't believe it. I had no intention of ever selling it. But I made the big mistake of sitting down in a nice room with 10 very nice mandolins and playing them all and comparing them and then playing more and comparing more. I think I must have been there a couple hours. I had my band mates with me to speak some reason into my brain. We all came to the same conclusion with no hesitation.

    What I played: My original honey Northfield Big Mon, another Big Mon, a Northfield Artist, Northfield F5S, Collings MF Deluxe, Collings MF Satin, Gibson F-5L Fern, Gibson Sam Bush, Gibson F5G, Red Diamond (Osbourne)

    Attractiveness:
    #1 = My original Big Mon or the Northfield Artist. They are exactly what I want a mandolin to look like.
    ....
    #10 = Gibson F-5L Fern. I don't like red sunbursts and white binding. I don't like large pick guards and I don't like narrow necks (1 1/16) And, most especially, I don't like bling (like the headstock inlays) I typically think of Gibson instruments as over-priced too.

    The Gibson F-5L Fern was exactly the last instrument I would ever consider owning. I've always thought they were gaudy. The big problem for me was that in a side by side comparison, with my playing style, this particular Fern was hands down the best sounding mandolin I've ever played. I've only played maybe 60 expensive mandolins, but this was the best by a wide margin. I really don't like the way it looks but the sound is incredible. Notes pop off it and the low end is rich and woody. The high end punches good but it's sweeter than all the others I played. I don't like overly bright mandolins. I use it as a main rhythm instrument in an Americana band so it has to have some girth to the sound. I called Gibson this morning and found out it was made in July of this year. It has a huge open sound and it's only a couple months old. I have no idea how it would get better with age and I'm now worried it will sound worse as it ages. I know... that's stupid thinking, but it's a huge monetary investment and you have to over-think these things.

    So I left the store with no mandolins. I traded in my favorite looking mandolin for a mandolin that sounds better than all the rest (but I hate the look). A luthier will scoop the fingerboard extension. (I hate the pick click) And, they will ship it to me in a week. I will need to install a K&K pickup in it once it arrives so I can use it on the next show.

    Thanks for reading. That's my story... so far.

    Anyone else have similar stories of going to buy one thing and leaving with another?
    Gibson 2016 "Harvey" Fern
    Collings MT Mandola
    Weber 2017 Bitterroot A20-F Octave Mandolin
    Crump BIII Irish Bouzouki
    Petersen Level 2 Irish Bouzouki
    Eastman MDC805 Mandocello
    Collings 0002H
    Five & Six String Banjos
    Lots of other Guitars
    http://www.shadowfields.com

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  3. #2
    Registered User JAK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    What about the Red Diamond (Osborne)?
    John A. Karsemeyer

  4. #3
    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I love ferns,I play a fern, and they can be killers,,I also happen to like the look and feel,,,but a fern over a red diamond? That's kind of interesting....

  5. #4
    Registered User McIrish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Hey guys,
    I'm not saying anything against the Red Diamond. It was a nice mandolin but it wasn't even close. It really comes down to the sound you want to get. None of the mandolins sounded bad at all. Each had something they gave that was unlike the others. I think the Red Diamond sounded smooth and had a nice airiness to it (similar to my Big Mon) but lacked the bigness of sound I was looking for. I'm not talking shear volume. I'm speaking about a perceived low end extension and notes that just seem to pop off the instrument. All of the instruments were well made and great in their own right.
    On a funny (or not) side, I was hoping at some point to become a Northfield featured artist due to how much I like the look of their instruments, how much I loved my Big Mon and I think Adrian is a great guy. I guess that dream ends here....
    Gibson 2016 "Harvey" Fern
    Collings MT Mandola
    Weber 2017 Bitterroot A20-F Octave Mandolin
    Crump BIII Irish Bouzouki
    Petersen Level 2 Irish Bouzouki
    Eastman MDC805 Mandocello
    Collings 0002H
    Five & Six String Banjos
    Lots of other Guitars
    http://www.shadowfields.com

  6. #5
    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Well, we're not supposed to look at the instrument while we're playing, so there's that ... on the other hand, is there some little cosmetic things you can do that won't change the sound? maybe ask the luthier for a little stain on the binding to tone it down?

    The few times I've had the chance to try a bunch of instruments (with no intention of buying), it only confirmed for me that I have cheap tastes. Until I sat down with my snake, and then all bets were off. It's amazing what happens when you find something that just speaks to you, looks notwithstanding. Congrats on a great find!
    --------------------------------
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    Registered User samlyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Your initial post is a great reminder of why blind "taste tests" such as those done years ago at Wintergrass can be so paradigm changing. It is not always the most expensive, or the fanciest, or the F-model, or the best fit and finish that has the best sound (or the sound that most appeals to us as individual players).

    I hope that we can bring mando tasting back to Wintergrass (and not just because I suspect that my Collings would win)!

    -Sam

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    Troy Shellhamer 9lbShellhamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I love these posts. Thanks for sharing!
    *2002 Collings MT2
    *2016 Gibson F5 Custom
    *Martin D18
    *Deering Sierra

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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    In 2001 I went with a friend to Baltimore Bluegrass to have his banjo looked at and while I was waiting I played seven mandolins that were hanging on the wall and when I hit down on a Flatiron Festival it knocked my socks off, the shop owner (one of three) gave me a great price on it if I paid cash, so I gave him some money to hold it for me until I went home and got the rest of the money...Like a fool I sold it last spring because I have been thinking of giving up playing in a band with all of the headaches but now I wish I had of kept it, a great mandolin with a great sound...IMO Flatiron Festivals are way under rated...

    Willie

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  12. #9
    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Mr. Harvey pours some special magic sauce in all of his Gibson creations! Happy you've found The One!
    Tim Burcham
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    Gummy Bears and Scotch BrianWilliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Harvey! Hear, hear!

  14. #11
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Ears are not bad for a musical instrument decision, or so it seems. Men have made worse decisions with less appropriate body parts.
    But the sad undertone points to the tragedy of a less than perfect world, where ugly things have a beautiful voice they not really deserve, so to speak. It's like the old Greek heros being lured by the siren's song only to find out that they all look like Gollum. It's a synaesthetic faultline ripping your world apart.

    What would I have done? After finding out that there is better sound out there, my quest would have been to find the looks that should come with it, and not make do with just one half.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I'd judge an instrument by ear every time. It's playability also comes into the equation. It it sounds & plays well,what more do you need ?. I do like a mandolin to be pleasing to the eye (my 'eye'),but i could learn to appreciate one much more for it's superlative tone than it's looks. I remember back in my early 20's,i went out with a girl who was a fashion model,totally stunning good looks. However she had a temper like a pit bull with a thistle up it's a**. I'll settle for 'quality' every time in mandolins & women.

    From it's manufacture date,it would seem that you have one of Dave Harvey's excellent instruments. I haven't read one negative thing on here about the mandolins produced under Dave Harvey's rule. IMO,they already seem to be up there with Charlie Derrington's mandolins in terms of tone etc. - you're a lucky guy,
    Ivan
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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I would say the post-flood Gibson's are almost certainly the best sounding mandolins Gibson has made since the early 20's. They are (going by those I've played) very impressive indeed. What you might call "finesse" in terms of detail work and finish, though, is not comparable to what, say, Collings achieve - but that is appearance. They do have the classic Gibson tone. If that is what you want, they deliver it.

    Hanging on to mine...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

  18. #14
    Registered User McIrish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I had played just a few pre-flood F5's and they never did anything for me. They were good but not great. Like a lot of Gibson instruments, I felt that the "Name" was the selling point and thus they were over-priced. The ones I played didn't offer anything I couldn't get from other brands for much less. I'm pretty non-traditional in my playing style so having the Gibson name on a mandolin was never important to me. I have to say, the Fern I just bought has changed my mind completely about Gibson. Seriously, the three best sounding mandolins I played recently have all been post-flood Gibson's. (Fern, F5G, Sam Bush) I don't know what Mr Harvey is doing differently but whatever it is, he should keep doing it. I had not planned on buying a mandolin and didn't have the money for one either. After hearing this particular Fern, I knew I had to find a way to buy it. It will take me a while to get used to such a narrow nut again and the thinner frets but in this case it was all about the sound. Nothing else mattered. Still, I wish I could have kept my Northfield Big Mon. That was a very nice mandolin and I will miss it.
    Gibson 2016 "Harvey" Fern
    Collings MT Mandola
    Weber 2017 Bitterroot A20-F Octave Mandolin
    Crump BIII Irish Bouzouki
    Petersen Level 2 Irish Bouzouki
    Eastman MDC805 Mandocello
    Collings 0002H
    Five & Six String Banjos
    Lots of other Guitars
    http://www.shadowfields.com

  19. #15

    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Great post McI,
    By using your ears, that could have gone another way. That says it all.
    Very smart to bring your daily player. Not doing that has cost me money, more than once.

    My story;
    I had the luck of playing 5 brand new (still wrapped)HD28 Martins.
    One was head & shoulders above the rest. It makes handing over the lettuce, much easier.

  20. #16
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Yes, Just within one brand, as a friend discovered sitting in the Eastman Warehouse, and trying a number of the same model F5s

    there was a tonal difference .. I'd Liken it to Picking a Puppy from the Litter One will speak to you more than the others.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  21. #17
    Registered User samlyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Less than perfect... such as most of the mandolins made by Bob Givens that were made with wood than was quite plain but nevertheless produced highly sought after tone and volume...

  22. #18
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Does an instrument choose it's owner?
    -Newtonamic

  23. #19
    Registered User dwc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Simonson View Post
    Does an instrument choose it's owner?
    "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter."

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    Default Re: Buying with your ears - total shock for me

    I just go by the Gerry Garcia addage, "On this planet, loud wins."

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