Do Tuners Add Tonal Quality?

[T.D.Nydn]

[QUOTE=grandcanyonminstrel;1523615]..... but the number of half deaf old geezers .....

I'm an optimist..I see them all as " half hearing old geezers"...

[Bruce Cech]

Don't mean to fuel your MAS, but the only way to improve tone is to buy a better mandolin. Works every time.

[j. condino]

Did you really mean to call those folks who express skepticism that some folks are truly hearing -- as opposed to merely imagining -- significant tonal differences when they change out things like nuts and fret wire "HALF DEAF OLD GEEZERS". Give me a break! First, that's terribly rude. Second, that's terribly wrong. There is a long history of people writing in to the MC with extravagant claims of supposed effects on tone arising from changes that should, in principle, only exert minuscule differences.

Yes, top-tier mandolins are sensitive instruments. They tend to have thin tops and even thinner finishes, and they are fragile and built extremely carefully. Small differences do indeed make a difference, especially when the scale length is so short and the tensions so high. But let's keep it real, please, and let's not levy insults at the folks who are quite justifiably cynical about some of the more outlandish claims. Our hearing is not impaired, nor are we all old. Nor are we all men, for that matter.

Oh, and my leather strap made a big difference when I changed it out. Just saying.

Lighten up Francis....

[sblock]

Lighten up Francis....

Huh? What did you say? Sorry, I didn't hear you. I'm really old and half-deaf. Can hardly read these posts, either. I should probably change my hearing aid. And my glasses. And my mandolin tuners, too.

[foldedpath]

I and a number of people I know can tell a difference when changing out many of the fittings- bridges, tailpieces, tuning machines, nut, fretwire- but the number of half deaf old geezers who will cry "....that's a whole lotta' nuthin'..." no matter what the conversation is far outweighs the few who can hear the difference!

Oh yeah? Prove it with a before and after recording under controlled conditions, 'ya whippersnapper.

And get off my lawn! (rattles walker furiously)

[Paul Statman]

Well, I mentioned up-thread that I swapped out Schallers for Waverlys on a Lebeda F mandolin and a Weber octave mandolin. Didn't notice any sonic difference at all, on either instrument. I don't see why it would be any different if I had swapped out Gotoh tuners instead, since it's probably about the same very small increase in weight going to the Waverlys.

There was a perceptible difference in smoothness of tuner action, though. They don't just look nice, they work very well.

High-end tuners aren't magic though. I still have pesky A strings that don't always cooperate, a neck that's just flexible enough that a string will change pitch slightly when the adjacent one in a pair is tuned to pitch, and so on. The usual stuff with mandolins. High-end tuners help a bit with the adjustments you have to make, but the reasons you have to make those adjustments are all still present. A mandolin is the fussiest and orneriest fretted instrument I've ever tried to keep in tune.

I replaced Waverly with Gotoh to balance my peghead-heavy Brentrup PML. I can discern no difference in tone or sustain.

[Jeff Mando]

[QUOTE=T.D.Nydn;1523663]

..... but the number of half deaf old geezers .....

I'm an optimist..I see them all as " half hearing old geezers"...

Probably some truth on "both" sides.....

There was a recent thread about hearing aids on this forum and I personally was amazed at the member's knowledge of various hearing aid models and their benefits.....I ATTEMPTED to bring up a similar point about how can we discuss the virtues (and subtleties) of "high end" wood choices found at boutique prices when a good number of us can't hear.....or can't hear as well as we would like.....well, they jumped all over me, so I know now to refrain from bring up such topics..............

[dwc]

I don't think so. I had a June A5; I replaced the Golden Age Tuners with Waverly's and the stock tailpiece with a James tailpiece. I recorded the instrument before and after the upgrades and noticed no discernible change in tone. Of course, this is purely anecdotal based on a sample size of one.

That being said, all of my mandolins get Waverly's and a James tailpiece. The hinged design of the James Tailpiece makes changing strings easier, and since I change strings every 10 days or so, it is worth it. I also appreciate Waverly tuners. I believe they make tuning easier, especially when you need to make small adjustments in a limited amount of time between songs.

[David L]

Interesting...
Also, remember that while you're pulling on one side of the saddle when tuning up a string, there is a countering force from the strings on the other side running to the tailpiece. Compare that to the neck, where all the string pull is from one direction. The neck would seem to be a more dynamic system for causing these small shifts in an adjacent string when tuning.

The string pull at the nut works exactly like at the bridge. The pull is equal on both sides of the nut. If it wasn't, the string would be moving. The fact that the tuners are at the headstock end doesn't make any difference after you quit turning them (unless your nut slots are WAY sticky)

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I just put a set of Waverlies on a mandolin that had cheaper tuners. The mandolin sounds the same. It stays in tune better than it did-both during a show and at home. I can pull it out of the case after a few days and it is still pretty much in tune. The tuners feel smoother and more even when I turn them, which makes it faster to tune and easier to tune. That is what high quality tuners give you over cheap tuners. If that is important to you or if you are having issues with tuning on a mandolin, maybe look into getting some. If not, Don't...simple as that. It's a very utilitarian issue.

[Tavy]

I just put a set of Waverlies on a mandolin that had cheaper tuners. The mandolin sounds the same. It stays in tune better than it did-both during a show and at home. I can pull it out of the case after a few days and it is still pretty much in tune. The tuners feel smoother and more even when I turn them, which makes it faster to tune and easier to tune. That is what high quality tuners give you over cheap tuners. If that is important to you or if you are having issues with tuning on a mandolin, maybe look into getting some. If not, Don't...simple as that. It's a very utilitarian issue.

That's true for me with cheap Gotoh's... just saying... of course I'd bet the Waverlies look/feel a good deal better, and I can certainly understand the satisfaction in that.

[Paul Statman]

That's true for me with cheap Gotoh's... just saying... of course I'd bet the Waverlies look/feel a good deal better, and I can certainly understand the satisfaction in that.

I like the Gotoh machines, and they work just fine. I even replaced a Waverly set with Gotoh on one mando because the imbalance was making that particular mando head heavy - even with a ToneGard, arm rest and James TP at the other end.