Mandola vs. Mandocello (vintage)

[goaty76]

Mandolin is obviously the king of the mandolin family instruments. I was just curious as to who comes in 2nd these days in terms of popularity. Sales, pricing, playing, general interest, etc.... I'm speaking purely in the world of vintage instrument enthusiasts. I think for modern builders the octave mandolin might be second.

Phil

[Tobin]

Vintage? Number 2 has to be the mandola. The octave mandolin wasn't part of the equation in the Gibson glory years. And the mandocello and mandobass weren't ever produced in very large numbers. So there aren't a lot of them around. And to be honest, the ones that still exist don't seem to fetch prices that are on par with their rarity. But vintage mandolas are out there, and seem to have some interest.

A teens F4 mandolin will fetch maybe $5K-$6K in excellent condition? The price is nearly double for an H4 mandola in the same condition, at around $10K-$12K.

[JeffD]

I think you might get different answers if you asked a player or if you asked a collector. I believe a mandocello is a little more collectable than the mandola, but that a mandola is more popular among players.

I could be totally wrong, but some recent experience points me in that direction.

[Jim Garber]

Vintage? Number 2 has to be the mandola. The octave mandolin wasn't part of the equation in the Gibson glory years.

And you are somewhat northamerican-centric. Mandolas (at least the one tuned to CGDA) were pretty rare in Europe and most of the mandola-labelled instruments over there were tuned as we would tune octave mandolins. Some among vintage mandolin family in Europe, yes, mandolas but they are tuned one octave below mandolins.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Vintage? Number 2 has to be the mandola. The octave mandolin wasn't part of the equation in the Gibson glory years. And the mandocello and mandobass weren't ever produced in very large numbers. So there aren't a lot of them around. And to be honest, the ones that still exist don't seem to fetch prices that are on par with their rarity. But vintage mandolas are out there, and seem to have some interest.

A teens F4 mandolin will fetch maybe $5K-$6K in excellent condition? The price is nearly double for an H4 mandola in the same condition, at around $10K-$12K.

You got any examples of sales at those prices? I've seen teens F4's sit between 4 and 5K... and they do just sit. The last H4 I saw was for $6k and it might still be there. H1 and H2 sell for mid teens to mid 2's. There are certainly a lot of H1 and H2's still around.

[Bernie Daniel]

Vintage? .....A teens F4 mandolin will fetch maybe $5K-$6K in excellent condition? The price is nearly double for an H4 mandola in the same condition, at around $10K-$12K.

It goes the other way with 1920's F-5s ($150 - 200K) versus H-5s ($60 - 100K) though and the H-5s certainly were made in much smaller numbers....

[Bernie Daniel]

And you are somewhat northamerican-centric. Mandolas (at least the one tuned to CGDA) were pretty rare in Europe and most of the mandola-labelled instruments over there were tuned as we would tune octave mandolins. Some among vintage mandolin family in Europe, yes, mandolas but they are tuned one octave below mandolins.

I did not know that - but it makes sense then that Europeans call mandolas the "octave mandolin". And I have seen octave mandola used for the mandocello too.

[Tobin]

You got any examples of sales at those prices? I've seen teens F4's sit between 4 and 5K... and they do just sit. The last H4 I saw was for $6k and it might still be there. H1 and H2 sell for mid teens to mid 2's. There are certainly a lot of H1 and H2's still around.

H1 and H2 models are bargains, IMHO. When I bought my H4, it took months to even find one. I paid $8.5K, and considered it luck. There were 2 others, one at $10.5K and one at $11.5K. But that was a while back. The market may be depressed at the moment.

I see F4s all the time in that $5K- $6K price range. I gave $5.7K for mine at the time, and it was on par with several others I was considering. But again, the market varies.

I don't think any grand generalizations can be made about mandolas without breaking down the discussion into models.

As for being North Americanized, well, of course! When we speak of vintage mandolin orchestra family instruments and their popularity, isn't it really Gibson models we're talking about? European models don't seem common enough to even have a following that I have seen.

[derbex]

I did not know that - but it makes sense then that Europeans call mandolas the "octave mandolin". And I have seen octave mandola used for the mandocello too.

In the mandolin orchestras and scores I have seen over here they tend to just call them mandolas, a CGDA mandola would be a tenor mandola. In the folk world it's a bit different.

[Bernie Daniel]

In the mandolin orchestras and scores I have seen over here they tend to just call them mandolas, a CGDA mandola would be a tenor mandola. In the folk world it's a bit different.

Thanks. So you have mandolin gdae; tenor mandola (or just mandola) cgda ; and octave mandola CGDA then? I do sense the mandola is having a surge of popularity now in the US at least?

[Givson]

Since the L-5 was originally a member of Loar's mandolin family, I would say the guitar is number 2!

[David L]

Thanks. So you have mandolin gdae; tenor mandola (or just mandola) cgda ; and octave mandola CGDA then? I do sense the mandola is having a surge of popularity now in the US at least?

In Europe, the mandola (cgda) is called an alto mandolin. Octave mandolins in Europe are sometimes called mandolas. I've never heard the term octave mandola (low cgda), as that is a mandocello.

[mandroid]

Quartet you need one Of each + 2 mandolins.

[Bernie Daniel]

In Europe, the mandola (cgda) is called an alto mandolin. Octave mandolins in Europe are sometimes called mandolas. I've never heard the term octave mandola (low cgda), as that is a mandocello.

I think I like our system better!

[Eddie Sheehy]

A rose by any other name...

[Martin Jonas]

In Europe, the mandola (cgda) is called an alto mandolin. Octave mandolins in Europe are sometimes called mandolas. I've never heard the term octave mandola (low cgda), as that is a mandocello.

The naming is confused by the American influence obscuring the older European names, which themselves were somewhat inconsistent. At this stage, the following names all co-exist in Europe for mandolas:

CGDA:

• Alto mandola.
• Tenor mandola (common in older UK usage, but not Continental Europe -- name derived from the tenor guitar and tenor banjo, but like them a misnomer for CGDA tuning as that covers the alto not tenor range).
• Mandola (from dealers who copy US catalogue descriptions, and their customers who are unfamiliar with older UK/European usage).
• Mandola in Do (common in Italy, and probably the most elegant way of resolving ambiguity).
• Alt-Mandoline (common in Germany).

GDAE:

• Mandola (the default name in Continental Europe and until recently the UK)
• Octave mandola (used to differentiate the older "mandola" meaning from the more recent CGDA meaning imported from the US -- a misnomer as the name suggests an octave below mandola, which is not the case).
• Tenor mandola (musicologically correct, but inviting confusion with older UK usage).
• Octave mandolin (relatively recently imported name from the US, but with the advantage of being entirely unambiguous).
• Mandola in Sol (Italian usage, also unambiguous).

Martin

[mandroid]

Well; 'Tenor Mandola' (to an outsider) Does make some sense in Classical music They'd read the Viola charts
which use the Tenor (C) Clef

the symbol centers on Middle C .. 2nd line from the top . open C string is the space under the 1st line.

rather than that C being in the Bass and extending across the middle C to the Treble clef
as Pianists read.


http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/...nor-clefs.html

[Martin Jonas]

Well; 'Tenor Mandola' (to an outsider) Does make some sense in Classical music They'd read the Viola charts
which use the Tenor (C) Clef

the symbol centers on Middle C .. 2nd line from the top .

Not quite. The viola (and CGDA mandola) most commonly uses the alto clef rather than the tenor clef, with middle C on the middle line rather than the second line from the top. That's why "tenor mandola" is confusing, as the CGDA mandola is an alto instrument rather than a tenor instrument.

Martin

[mandroid]

I dont Sight read you guys go ahead without me. I'll be at the Bar.