Ear Trumpet Mics

[banjoboy]

Anybody ever use one of the Ear Trumpet mics? Pretty cool looking. Wondering how they work for single mic vocals.

[BrianWilliam]

Saw them on stage a lot this summer and they sounded good with vocals and instruments. Never used one myself.

[Jim Garber]

Not so cheap but they look cool and hopefully sound as cool as they look.

[almeriastrings]

What is inside them... discussed here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...pet-Microphone

[Charlieshafer]

What is inside them... discussed here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...pet-Microphone

It's worth going back to that post, especially when Almeria talks about the difference between studio and stage mics. This is why the Ear Trumpet works well: it's not particularly great. I can't count the number of artists who show up with them and want to use them, even though I can provide "much better." With a lack of great response and detail comes a better chance of feedback rejection. The artists think they sound great because, in most cases (especially outdoors) everything pretty much sounds the same anyway.

So, in the truly big picture, you're paying for a well-built, cool looking microphone of pretty average sound quality. It's very easy to sound check (and does sound nice, don't get me wrong) seems pretty bullet-proof, and does add to the ambient overall performance vibe. On that last bit, overall performance vibe is very important, and can add considerably to a show's appeal, as long as you have the chops to back it up.

[Astro]

Yes, I have one. I got The Louise. I agree with the posts above.

People forget sometimes that placebo effect is a real effect. Its not that you think it works but it doesnt really. It really does work to be placebo effect, you just can't explain why. If it works, who cares why.

I have no regrets as I dig the mic.

That said:

1) I strongly recommend you just get one of the Chinese import condensers for under a hundred bucks like the mxl 990 or the rhode or the new Guitar center brand (stargent or something) and use that first. In a live situation the cheap Chinese ones are likely going to sound about as good. It will give you a feel for the one mic thing. Then if you like it, and if you play quieter venues where the quality and aesthetic can be better appreciated, consider the ETL.

2) After playing bars live with condensers for a month, then adding a second condenser for a month, we ended up going back to individual dynamic mics. With 3 people singing and playing, its just a whole lot easier to get the right eq. Some of the band felt they had to yell when they sang and/or overplay their instrument to be heard and we often had to get uncomfortably close for the type music(very lively) we do. [BTW, the second condenser mic we got for 50 bucks at GC on sale-their stargent brand(or whatever) and it sounded almost as good -surprisingly good- in a noisy live environment. You dont want high quality sensitive stuff here. Save that for the studio.].

We didnt have much trouble with feedback as we learned to play w/o monitors or with low monitor. And we had FB suppression (go rack). We play noisy bars. Dont believe those who say they wont work live. They work fine if you learn how.

One word of caution. Once you get a cool looking mic EVERYONE wants to sing through it. We had to fight off drunks and girlfriends trying to get up with or after us to sing through it and its too expensive to get knocked around.

[almeriastrings]

Once you get a cool looking mic EVERYONE wants to sing through it. We had to fight off drunks and girlfriends trying to get up with or after us to sing through it and its too expensive to get knocked around.

Oh, dear....

Worse even than people jumping up and tapping on them shouting "ONE... TWO... THREE.. IS THIS TURNED ON?"

The horror of it all.

[Spruce]

The artists think they sound great because, in most cases (especially outdoors) everything pretty much sounds the same anyway.

The artists think they sound great because they look great...

[banjoboy]

Any idea how they stack up to a 4033? Supposedly there are less feedback issues with ET mics. I've also noticed in some ET reviews that SM57/58 mics are mentioned. Is the ET pattern so tight as to compare them to Shure mics?

[Charlieshafer]

It's not always a question of pattern, it can often be a question of sensitivity, especially if the mic picks up highs or lows out of balance with the mid frequencies. Without getting all math or graphy, if a mic is more sensitive to highs compared to the rest of it's response, it may be more likely to feedback when subjected to lots of highs coming out of monitors or mains. ET's are easy to control simply because they're not super sensitive or peaky. They're nice and even. Better than any other mic, nope, simply average, which in live circumstances is just fine.

[almeriastrings]

Technically, the AT4033 is ahead by a mile. Very well engineered using a nice capsule and with a much wider frequency response (30-20,00 Hz), high sensitivity (roughly 2.5 X), and lower self-noise.

However that is not the whole story. Taking the ET 'Louise', they start with a mediocre, cheap capsule, then further restrict performance using internal (physical) damping and add some heavy electronic filtering, so you end up with 20 - 17KHz (and that at a wide tolerance in terms of measurement). They don't cite any tight, accurate numbers at all, but I remember one independent test that revealed a steep drop off of 12dB/octave above 10kHz. That is closer to what you'd see from a middle of the road dynamic mic (or even passive ribbon) than what you'd normally expect from a condenser. In a stage setting, though, these limited specs can work in your favor....

PS: You could achieve a very similar result by keeping the input trim right down and by really rolling the high frequencies off on the mixer from just about any microphone.

[Astro]

One thing about the shape of the suspended shock mount housing is that it really helps clue you in visually while your playing live. You can get all the way over on the side and as long as you're in front of the extended plane of that large round ring of the suspended shock mount thingy, you will be heard. And of course it has great rejection as soon as you cross that plane.

It doesn't pick up as well as I'd hoped when you back out a few feet. But I guess that's why its feedback resistant. My guess is that based on what almeristrings has said the AT4033 would beat the pants off it in a studio. But for live work, I'm not so sure.

I dont think so many up-comers would be using it if it were bad. On the other hand, I am sure the look of it, and that its a bit of a current fad, has a lot to do with its current appeal. It was for me when I saw the Milk Carton kids and several other great bands playing though it. And after all, looks is important in this biz for those playing live. As I said above, you could probably do about as good with a sub 100 collar GC special for most live work. And you can drive the same place in a Kia as you can in a Mercedes. But you feel a little different when you're driving one than you do when you're driving the other. Maybe you sing a little different when you feel a little different ?

[foldedpath]

I dont think so many up-comers would be using it if it were bad. On the other hand, I am sure the look of it, and that its a bit of a current fad, has a lot to do with its current appeal. It was for me when I saw the Milk Carton kids and several other great bands playing though it. And after all, looks is important in this biz for those playing live.

That may depend on the genre of music and audience expectations. The "biz" is different for every style of music.

For example, I've never seen this mic at the recent concerts I've attended, but they've all been in the "Celtic" genre, with groups like Altan, Solas, Lunasa (including a recent show with Tim O'Brien), and Natalie MacMaster. They all used the typical condenser mics you'd expect for instruments or vocals.

All these bands put on a great show, but they don't depend on a fancy-looking mic for it. If anything, they're trying to keep the sound reinforcement in the background. They're also in "pro" venues with good sound engineers, so feedback is a non-issue.

In my opinion, with the digital feedback control tools available now even for weekend warriors, feedback should never be a reason to choose one mic over another for an acoustic group unless you're playing at insane volume levels. I think most bands are choosing this mic for the visual vibe and emotional support, more than anything else. And if you're in a band playing at level of say, Lunasa or Altan, you don't need that.

[Charlieshafer]

Well, even some great musicians are using it. Jayme Stone, with Moira Smiley (who also doubles as Solas' singer) uses one, the aforementioned Milk Carton Kids. I can't even remember all the others who were on that same level that came through. Vibe is a weird thing. How many great guitarists use a certain guitar for the showmanship. How many on this site will go see a certain mandolinist just to see what he's playing? How many threads appear here wanting to know how to get the same sound as Thile's Dude or Loar, or which strings someone is using?

In reality, none of this matters. You'll sound like yourself no matter what you play, and a decent sound guy can get you sounding fine no matter the microphone. Assuming the same sound guy travels with a band, like Raymond with Solas, 99% of live sound quality is based on room acoustics and speaker placement.

I've had some remarkable platers through the years with no performance vibe, and the audience falls asleep. Conversely, we've had some charming young bands that aren't quite top shelf yet, but absolutely have the audience coming up and hugging them after the show just due to their likability. Check out Ten Strings And A Goatskin sometime. Young and goofy, they just suck everyone right in.

Vibe does matter, it's just that this particular microphone is quite average.

[banjoboy]

Well, living in the Northwest, I had a chance last Friday to visit Ear Trumpet Labs and met with Philip Graham (owner). As a result of my visit, I am now in possession of a Myrtle and a matched pair of Edwinas. My band will be using them at our next gig next weekend. I have total faith that they will work just fine for us. After doing some more research, I'm convinced that these mics are more than just a fad. I'm putting my faith in the fact that several national acts and talented musicians are using them. I highly doubt that groups such as the Earls and Hot Rize would use the mics if they didn't have more to offer than just looks.

[almeriastrings]

After doing some more research, I'm convinced that these mics are more than just a fad. I'm putting my faith in the fact that several national acts and talented musicians are using them. I highly doubt that groups such as the Earls and Hot Rize would use the mics if they didn't have more to offer than just looks.

Maybe you could let us in on your research?

When it comes to technical equipment such as microphones, there are several objective areas to look at. One is the specifications. These tell you a lot. Another area to look at is the components and how they are assembled. On the surface, many microphones are 'similar', but in reality, there is a world of difference between them. So, you can buy $75 small diaphragm condenser microphones from dozens of sources, and for some purposes they might be 'good enough' - but don't think for one second they are in the same league as a Schoeps, DPA or Neumann, etc, because they're not - however, in a live situation the 'very best' can work against you. First. you don't need the 'very best'. Second, you could never even hear the differences (such as noise floor) adequately through a PA system (even the best PA systems), and finally, something much more limited in performance is likely handle feedback issues better than the 'very best' anyway. Simply put, you are likely to have less trouble with an SM58 than you would if you turned up with a Neumann U87.

So, they work in that context. If it was really about sound, however, you don't need the fancy packaging at all. Put the same capsules in a plain package

[Paul Kotapish]

W used one for a small concert up in Portland, Oregon, last spring. It was a 40-year reunion gig with a bluegrass/old-time string band and we were running on memories and not at all choreographed, but it worked great. We just sort of leaned in a bit for vocals and solos. Had a separate, on-board mic on the guitar and the bass--everything else went through the Ear Trumpet or was heard acoustically. No monitors needed in that small, house-concert setting for about 60 people, but it sure worked well in that context. Looked cool, too. Not sure how I'd like it in a bigger venue or in a different band, though.

[almeriastrings]

There is no doubt they can work very well in a live situation. There is also no doubt that the styling has proved very popular. It was a brilliant concept to come up with that, as clearly 'it hits the spot' in marketing terms. People do seem to like 'the look'. The restricted frequency response also helps with feedback resistance. All power to the builder as he has made a success out of it.

[Mandoplumb]

What is the best? Almeriastring goes into detail on "the best" then states that the best works against you in PA use. While I know what he is saying I say the best is what works the best in any given situation. So in realty there is no "best" just best for that use. In my PA use with my band I prefer a ribbon mic, the first generation BG artist all used a ribbon probably a lot in live performance and almost always in the studio because it was state of the art at that time. I love the sound that a ribbon with a tube pre-amp gives, but there are times that the figure 8 just won't work. In those cases a ribbon is not "the best" but most of the time, for what I want to achieve it is. Some one else trying for a different sound may think my set up is very poor. The truth is we are both right.

[Charlieshafer]

The tech-heavy guys will get what I'm about the say here, the non-tech guys may not, but it's worth a final try. I mix shows in a fixed room size, fixed audience size. It's been the same for 20 years. The bands change, and their microphone choices change, but the room and equipment are perfectly constant. Some bring their own mics, most don't. Groups like Solas don't but request that we have nothing but sm58's for vocals. The majority for vocals go with sm58's. Crooked Still was 58's. So was Grada, Hot Club of Cowtown, Mr. Sun, etc.

The few that requested large diagram condensers brought their own, even though I keep a few on hand as problem solvers. 10 years ago, the bring-your-own mic of choice were Neumanns. It was really important to them that they had those and nothing else. I was fine with that, as that's what I keep i the box in reserve. In our room, and THAT'S THE MOST CRITICAL THING, I roll off the highs a bit, the mids just a tiny bit, to get them to sound just like their cd. Now it's the Ear Trumpets, and for them, they're less sensitive, so I need to boost the entire gain, and tweak up the highs, and make sure the high pass filter is on, even for vocals. Then, they sound nice and clear, just like on their cd's, and just like the Neumann's.

NO ONE, even the Grammy winners, cares about a ribbon. They want clear, controlled, predictable sound. They want to sound like you've got their carefully-mastered cd on. In my room, I can give them just that, no matter what stinking' mic they want to use. I'm toning down the bright mics, and boosting the quiet ones. And all the good players know to keep the monitors as low as possible.

From that respect, everything is a fad tech-wise, instrument-wise, string-wise. Assuming decent equipment on all fronts, It's all the room and the musicians.

[ferrousgeek]

The tech-heavy guys will get what I'm about the say here, the non-tech guys may not, but it's worth a final try. I mix shows in a fixed room size, fixed audience size. It's been the same for 20 years. The bands change, and their microphone choices change, but the room and equipment are perfectly constant. Some bring their own mics, most don't. Groups like Solas don't but request that we have nothing but sm58's for vocals. The majority for vocals go with sm58's. Crooked Still was 58's. So was Grada, Hot Club of Cowtown, Mr. Sun, etc.

The few that requested large diagram condensers brought their own, even though I keep a few on hand as problem solvers. 10 years ago, the bring-your-own mic of choice were Neumanns. It was really important to them that they had those and nothing else. I was fine with that, as that's what I keep i the box in reserve. In our room, and THAT'S THE MOST CRITICAL THING, I roll off the highs a bit, the mids just a tiny bit, to get them to sound just like their cd. Now it's the Ear Trumpets, and for them, they're less sensitive, so I need to boost the entire gain, and tweak up the highs, and make sure the high pass filter is on, even for vocals. Then, they sound nice and clear, just like on their cd's, and just like the Neumann's.

NO ONE, even the Grammy winners, cares about a ribbon. They want clear, controlled, predictable sound. They want to sound like you've got their carefully-mastered cd on. In my room, I can give them just that, no matter what stinking' mic they want to use. I'm toning down the bright mics, and boosting the quiet ones. And all the good players know to keep the monitors as low as possible.

From that respect, everything is a fad tech-wise, instrument-wise, string-wise. Assuming decent equipment on all fronts, It's all the room and the musicians.

Agree 100% !!

[banjoboy]

Well, I've learned that everyone has an opinion. I agree with Charlieshafer regarding fads. With that in mind, it could be said that 4033's are a fad. It's my understanding that they were initially meant to be a recording mic. But groups like Del McCoury used them for awhile, and all of a sudden everyone started considering them the litmus test of live single-mic live performance settings. But 4033 mics are not best suited for all situations. I am technically challenged when it comes to this stuff. I liked what I saw and what I heard at the ET shop. I have witnessed bands on videos and live using the ET mics. As I mentioned above, I highly doubt that a group like the Earls or Hot Rize would use the mics just cause they look cool. They wouldn't sacrifice their sound for a fad. AND, if you purchase the mics and they don't float your boat, you can return them for full refund within 30 days. It seems like you can't lose. Also, I love the way they look, and I like the idea of supporting a local business.

[Astro]

I am very happy with mine. I'm sure you will be too.

[almeriastrings]

Well, I've learned that everyone has an opinion. I agree with Charlieshafer regarding fads. With that in mind, it could be said that 4033's are a fad.

They are absolutely a fad... or maybe "fashion" is a kinder word.

That microphone is an excellent example.

They look like a large diaphragm condenser microphone but are really no such thing. Looks can be deceptive - and, to some, attractive. That is an 11.5mm (under half-inch) capsule in there! That is actually way smaller than a KSM-137 (19mm) or a Neumann KM-84 (20mm). The casing looks big, however. So yes, looks count for an awful lot. So much so that bands and artists can rent nice looking vintage mics for video and photo shoots. Only $100 a day...

http://www.retromicrophones.com/home.php

That tells you how important "the look" really is.

[Mandoplumb]

Yes the look is important, and yes it seems to be a fad right now. But I agree with banjoboy, these bands wouldn't use them if they didn't produce the sound they wanted. These "tech-heavy" guys are looking at the spec's others are looking at the sound and appearance they want maybe not what the sound man wants. I do not like the "sha-sha" of a condenser mic, did not hear it on Monroes or Flatt and Scruggs early recording. That is why I prefer the ribbon mics. When Dale Perry was with Doyle Lawson and they played the Ftanklin Country high school (just a few miles from where Dale lived) they used a ribbon. IMHO they never sounded better certainly not now with the pick ups on the instrument and the over processing. Dale wouldn't carry his ribbons on the bus because they are so fragile and I certainly understand that, but I have more control over the transport of mine tan he did and I use them everywhere they will work. Why? Because it's the sound I want.