That just brought a smile to my face. Interacting with our heroes as peers is priceless.Where else can you end up trading your own album with David Grisman because he contacts you about a Swedish mandolin you have for sale?
That just brought a smile to my face. Interacting with our heroes as peers is priceless.Where else can you end up trading your own album with David Grisman because he contacts you about a Swedish mandolin you have for sale?
Robert Fear
http://www.folkmusician.com
"Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
" - Pete Seeger
Thank you for what you do Scott. I've used this service once and it was great. I love your classifieds. Well stated letter Sir!
So I really appreciate MC and the classifieds. I bought my serious mandolin thru the classifieds, and I love it. I occasionally will post but mostly I learn from MC. How can I show my appreciation?
Mark
On the top menu bar you'll see a selection that says Donate.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Scott,
I sold a mandolin a while back using the classifieds, and have used them on and off since the 90's. I wanted to send a payment (wasn't a real expensive one), but didn't see an easy way to do so. I was thinking I would send payment when I purchased a cap, but the system didn't allow that. I don't like using paypal much and have no balance there.... I would be happy to send payment now, but please direct me to a way to do that. You are the best, and MandolinCafe is the best.
Richard Bailey
aka mandofanatic@gmail.com
Mandolin Cafe - Since 1995
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Ya know this got me thinking it's time to donate a few bucks again not because I sold something but because I use this site a lot ! And actually got on a newbie yesterday who was looking for Free mando lessons I was polite and told him "nobody works for free" I think the majority of site users would or maybe they do donate too keep this site going but probably like me they get busy and just forget. With that said how about shooting out blast email to remind us to chip in a few bucks once or twice a year. Hopefully if you did that it wouldn't be more work for free !
Thanks for keeping this site going
Lou
The main local guitar store here charges 25%. Reverb.com charges something like 6%. Craigslist is free and not moderated, and therefore a scammers' mosh pit. Ebay forces buyers and sellers to use Paypal, another racket.
There are other sites that seem to be managed better than Craig's and are free, like TDPRI and Harmony Central. But they have access to a lot more advertising dollars than a mando-dedicated site can ever hope for - like much bigger Fender, Taylor, and Gibson bucks, for instance.
So all things considered, at 2% for a moderated classified section, Mandolin Cafe is a sweet deal, indeed.
Your letter should have cleared the air. If it didn't, nothing will!
Scott,
Thank you for so eloquently describing your position. In support of Mandolin Cafe's excellent service, I've successfully posted Classified Ads on Mandolin Cafe, am very grateful for the service you provide and have gladly paid for it. It's worth every dime of the portion you rightly deserve. Unfortunately, there are always those who mis-use, mistreat and take advantage of the good-hearted, honest souls of this world. However, I respectully disagree with your good-natured wording quoted here: "Continually dipping the hand in the cookie jar and not supporting the site or sub-par contributing is little more than poor taste". "Poor taste" is inaccurate...call it what it is..."S-T-E-A-L-I-N-G". Perhaps it would be helpful to make your site visitors blatantly aware of the site's operational policies. I think you have every right to put it right up front in big red capital letters and find ways to make it tougher for the bad guys to mis-use the system. After all, like the bad guys, you are human, you are a fellow musician and you don't deserve that treatment. Moreover, THEY DON'T DESERVE your good service!!!
R. Perry, Rochester NY
And a darned *good* musician too, I heard a recording somewhere last year of Scott playing. I wasn't expecting him to sound that good, I had thought he just runs a website and tries to keep us rummies from straying too far out of line. Turns out he plays good *and* runs a website. Cool!
Not kissing up, just stating my observation. The usual NFI etc etc.
Ok, off to my corner now, since I'm off-topic (again).
I have not read all this thread so what Im about to say may be in here. Im new to the cafe. I am long time banjo player and member of the Banjo Hangout for years. I have bought and sold a good amount there and have no problem with the way the donation thing works. There its 2% or $75 which ever is the less. I dont know if its a flat 2% here or not. I haven't tried to figure it out yet. Im having fun with recently finally getting me a mandolin after all these years. Love my Bluegrass! EE
I'd like to subscribe to the MC, also would like info on paying the 2% with each post (I haven't posted anything yet, but intend to eventually). Finally, would like information about advertising.
Thanks!
Free-loading is a rather common behaviour in people. Mandatory subscription to the Classified section might improve the site $ support situation, instead of a reliance on voluntary contributions. Only those members with a valid subscription would be allowed to post in the Classifieds. The yearly subscription amount could be something of the order of $50. Just a thought.
I appreciate the fact that Mandolin Cafe uses an honour system, though it doesn't always work. Many of the people selling things are amateur musicians and not commercial salespeople. I wouldn't pay a $50 annual fee, so that I could occasionally sell a music book for $20, or perhaps an instrument for $300 once in a life time. Such a charge would eliminate the use of Mandolin Cafe Classifieds as a sales place for many members. The 2% fee is better than reasonable. However, if I were sell that $20 book, and sent the 2% immediately, it would cost me more to transfer the money than the actual donation of forty cents. I make an occasional donation to the Cafe, though I haven't sold anything yet, and would include the 2% on a small item within that donation. However, if I were selling a $300 instrument, I'd be happy to send my 2% (and probably a bit extra) as soon as the transaction was complete. I thank the Cafe people for running things as they do, and will trust them to deal with "freeloaders" if this becomes a serious problem. And phooey on those who exploit the system.
Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
"I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.
I believe it's perfectly acceptable to 'stack up' transactions, especially those under a certain sale amount, then make a donation after a few sales. That's what I do, anyway. Yes, the 2% is a downright bargain.
Not only is it a bargain ... it is wonderfully safe. Scott does a phenomenal job policing the classifieds. There's a recent thread over on the Banjo Hangout that addresses problems folks have had with both sellers and buyers that just doesn't happen here.
Thank you Scott,
Ryk
mandolin ~ guitar ~ banjo
"I'm convinced that playing well is not so much a technique as it is a decision. It's a commitment to do the work, strive for concentration, get strategic about advancing by steps, and push patiently forward toward the goal." Dan Crary
I'd like to address the previous four posts as I find something there in each that I can confirm or comment further on why things are as they are.
Yes, freeloading is still common, but has risks. There are no second chances. There are also no secrets on the internet so people should understand they are being watched. When I find someone that is not contributing but playing the game with frequency and not contributing, by the time I contact them they're gone and won't be using this resource again.
You have to remember the stance on this since launching the Classifieds in 1998 has not changed: they're a perk for visitors to this site. I enjoy providing the service and the content it provides--some use them to make their living, and I'm fine with that--but I do expect 2% in return for successful sales to ensure this site continues to operate. That said, if you're the guy that lives an 8 hour drive away from a local retailer and you're on a shoestring making one sale every 7-8 years in order to upgrade I can let that slide. There's a record of every ad, every reply, and I can pull them up in a moment's notice. I talk to far more people involved in classifieds deals than the forum. Easily 5-1. If someone is here daily or every few days working the classifieds, I'm watching. I routinely remove a small number of sellers from time to time that are clearly gaming the system, and I state up front why I've done so.
Up front subscription based use: not going to happen. This is largely a one-person operation. It works fine as it is. Strong arming by charging up front would be a guarantee for a small niche site such as this to fail. The amount of administrative work, added responsibility and programming to get into that is something I have no interest in. I'd rather spend time developing valuable content and assisting visitors and business partners. Could I make more money by doing so? I don't know and don't particularly care. Making "X" amount has never been the ultimate goal. I love what I do and rise every morning looking forward to working. How many can say that about their day job?
Stacking transactions: yes, preferred. Sending a dollar donation means PayPal is rewarded exactly one third of the amount. Donate 50 cents and the Cafe gets 19 of those after PayPal. Send a $2 donation and request stickers which I'm happy to send and I end up with about 40 cents.
Costs to operate... What, this internets thingy costs money???? What I pay for a dedicated server is larger than the mortgage payments many of you are making. Dedicated, no sharing, top of the line speed, our optimal operating system of choice. Why is this site faster and more responsive than so many others? First-rate equipment and a system administrator Facebook would love to hire, especially after yesterday, but can't. And yes, I pay him well. And I'm reminded our hosting cost just took a 50% leap due to changes where we get our access. Must be nice to call the shots on your own raises.
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That’s all rather vague.
What’s your net profit each year?
Object to this post? Find out how to ignore me here!
From what I can glean on the Paypal site, Paypal takes 2.9% + 30cent transaction fee. So a $1 donation doesn't leave much, but a $10 donation fares much better. Hence the encouragement for stacking.
So, estimating a bit here, if I sell a mandolin for $300, that's a $6 donation, about $5.50 of which gets through. Yes?
Sadly, that means Paypal gets more of each sale than MC does, if the purchase also went through paypal.
Davey Stuart tenor guitar (based on his 18" mandola design).
Eastman MD-604SB with Grover 309 tuners.
Eastwood 4 string electric mandostang, 2x Airline e-mandola (4-string) one strung as an e-OM.
DSP's: Helix HX Stomp, various Zooms.
Amps: THR-10, Sony XB-20.
I'm sure we'd all love to know that, but I'm equally sure it's none of our business.
PayPal does have an option that allows users to avoid fees for certain types of transactions, but that might create other headaches for Scott, since I don't think donations to the site would count as that type of transaction.
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!
Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls
Scott, if more of us donate using this method, would that help your bottom line without causing too much grief?Donations for our efforts by check can be mailed to the address below.
Mandolin Cafe
1100 New Jersey St.
Lawrence, KS 66044-3354
My check will be in the mail tomorrow.
"Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay." ~ Alexander Dumas
A donation is just that, the method doesn't matter. I admit to tiring at seeing how well PayPal pays itself for smaller donations but that's just the way it is.
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Scott,
What is the best way to donate that cuts out the middle man? If it is sending you a check in the mail the old fashion way, I’d be happy to do that. Recently I posted an ad in the wanted section for a Kentucky tailpiece cover. Another Cafe member replied and is sending me one free of charge including shipping. I donated one dollar via PayPal thinking that although it is a small amount, you would get one dollar, which is not even enough to cover the value of the service I received from the use of your classified ad service, but I felt that I needed to pay you something. Now I feel like I rewarded PayPal instead of you.
I love PayPal, don't get me wrong. Lots of reasons to like it and use it, but a check still works best on this end. I've actually had people donate 30 cents which PayPal takes, drumroll... wait for it... 29 of those. I've had 25 cent donations, too, they take all of that.
If you want an easy window into their profit margin, lots of small sites that calculate their fees. I use this one: http://thefeecalculator.com/
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