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Thread: Mandolin Conservatives

  1. #26
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    I have documented my experiences with different woods here -
    http://www.petercoombe.com/ant.html

    Since maple has the traits needed for a back, stiffness, relatively high stiffness to mass, durability, and beauty, why use anything else?
    A couple of reasons. Maple does not grow in many countries of the world. It does not grow in Australia and we have a vast variety of different native tree species, many of which work very well in mandolins. Different from Maple, but still produce excellent sound. Spruce also does not grow here and has to be imported if you want to use Spruce for the top. So there is the availability and cost issues. The other reason is to produce a different sound. Maple has excellent clarity and brightness, but other woods such as Walnut and especially Tasmanian Myrtle have more warmth to the sound. Tasmanian Myrtle will give you a warm sweet sound that is virtually impossible to get using Maple. Often a King Billy Pine and Tasmanian Blackwood combination will give you such a clear sweet sound once the mandolin has been played in that no Spruce/Maple combination can match it. There are swings and roundabouts, however, often you do sacrifice something to gain something else so it is a matter of personal preference. That also applies to different species of Spruce and different species of Maple.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

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  3. #27
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    to the OP. Also google Old Wave mandolins. I think Bill has used all sorts of stuff.


    f-d
    ˇpapá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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  5. #28

    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by fatt-dad View Post
    to the OP. Also google Old Wave mandolins. I think Bill has used all sorts of stuff.


    f-d
    You must have been reading my mind. I believe Bill has used mesquite!

  6. #29
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    Lots of maple-backed bowls. I have a Greek one with a walnut bowl.
    Did not know that. Cool.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
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  7. #30
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Moss View Post
    I guess you can call me conservative. I consider F-style too far out.
    My response upon first seeing an F style mandolin was like you have got to be kidding. I have since fallen for the design, but only after dating someone who was into Art Deco and Art Nouveau and educated me on who was trying to do what in the general sense.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  8. #31
    Registered User red7flag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    My first mandolin was a Weber mahogany Bitterroot. Not the strongest grass manolin, but had a beautiful voice. Early in 2011 I commissioned Andrew Mowry to make a Oregon Claro Walnut GOM. Simply a great instrument. It has long sustain, but a very strong voice. I have played it in a raucous grass jam with no problem. I have just commissioned Lawrence Nyberg to make a Paduak (Pronounced Pa-Dook) back and sides, Englemann top, and mahogany neck. When I told him how much I like the tone of walnut, he recommended Paduak and after very little investigation, went with his recommendation. Lawrence and other sites say that paduak on a guitar with provide a tone that is very walnut like. It is initially red and after oxidation, will turn dark brown. Among other instruments, it is used on guitars and Xylophones. I have played a walnut mandolin and loved the tone. I forget the maker. That is what inspired my Mowry GOM.
    Tony Huber
    1930 Martin Style C #14783
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    2013 Hester F4 #31
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  9. #32
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    You want to see hidebound you need to run in violin circles. Not just spruce - carpathian spruce. No cedar, redwood, etc. allowed. Must be a copy of one of three Italian builders. Some brave souls are building great violins out of new world tonewoods, but it is an uphill battle for them.

    My favorite instruments use Western Red cedar or Redwood for the tops and big leaf maple back/sides/neck.

  10. #33
    Registered User Roger Moss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    My response upon first seeing an F style mandolin was like you have got to be kidding. I have since fallen for the design, but only after dating someone who was into Art Deco and Art Nouveau and educated me on who was trying to do what in the general sense.
    Of course I go crazy over two-points.
    We are the music makers,
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  11. #34
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    You want to see hidebound you need to run in violin circles. Not just spruce - carpathian spruce. No cedar, redwood, etc. allowed. Must be a copy of one of three Italian builders. Some brave souls are building great violins out of new world tonewoods, but it is an uphill battle for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by fscotte View Post
    Since maple has the traits needed for a back, stiffness, relatively high stiffness to mass, durability, and beauty, why use anything else?
    Yeah, what's the % of violins with a spruce top and maple back?
    Now we're talking in the 99% range...

    Quote Originally Posted by WoMando View Post
    You must have been reading my mind. I believe Bill has used mesquite!
    I have one of Bill's mesquite/cedar octave mandolins...great instrument...
    Mesquite is stable, baby...

  12. #35

    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    There are few instruments whose variety of shapes is greater than the mandolin. I've seen what must amount to hundreds of different mandolins on this site over the years.
    Granted, I may need new glasses, but I can name F style, A style, bowlback, 2-point, 3-point (still an F style), variations with f-holes and oval holes, electric mandocaster, and I guess you could include octave, mandola, mandocello even though many will have the same body shapes already mentioned........that's eleven being generous.....what are the hundreds of others, I'm forgetting?

  13. #36
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Granted, I may need new glasses, but I can name F style, A style, bowlback, 2-point, 3-point (still an F style), variations with f-holes and oval holes, electric mandocaster, and I guess you could include octave, mandola, mandocello even though many will have the same body shapes already mentioned........that's eleven being generous.....what are the hundreds of others, I'm forgetting?
    Resonator mandolins, including the spider bridge, biscuit bridge, and tricone variations.

    And that's before you get into the longer scale versions like octave mandolins, where there is no consensus at all on the perfect size, shape, or scale length!

  14. #37

    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Well, no doubt many different wood is or has been used in many combinations, but go into any well stocked store and it will be stocked with wall to wall maple/spruce mandolins with a smattering if old birch Gibsons. Yes, the knowing and adventurous will try and buy unique instruments from talented builders, and they will no doubt be really good. But in the world of lower to mid priced instruments, probably a huge percentage of the market, maple/spruce is the norm.

    I'm in extreme bliss over my redwood topped Silverangel. That is why I started the thread as I got to thinking why aren't there more redwood topped mandolins?

  15. #38
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Granted, I may need new glasses, but I can name F style, A style, bowlback, 2-point, 3-point (still an F style), variations with f-holes and oval holes, electric mandocaster, and I guess you could include octave, mandola, mandocello even though many will have the same body shapes already mentioned........that's eleven being generous.....what are the hundreds of others, I'm forgetting?
    Oh, just by way of example, cylinder-back, boat-back, there's a Sicilian flatback made by a company that usually does bowlbacks in the (vague) shape of a Gibson F, there's the Gelas mando with two tops, the Ceccherini bowlback with double soundboards, mandolinetto, and so on. Then individual variations within types, for example the Lyon & Healy carved mandolins, which superficially resemble Gibson A models, but on closer examination are rather different in construction and certainly in tonality. Mandolins with airplane bridges, mandolins with string trees beyond the bridge, look at the massive history of threads on oddball mandolins here.

    You may not need glasses, but you might need to take a closer look at the tremendous variation even within various forms, for example bowlbacks. There are German, Neapolitan, Roman, and Greek variations, all strikingly different once you pay attention to what's going on in construction and tonality.

    I dunno. If you can't see it, fine. But don't discount the possibility that others might have seen and heard things that have escaped your attention.

  16. #39
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Yes they did Mike, so in the early 20's maybe Loar said why don't we do what we say hence than all models were made from maple.
    I am not questioning your statement but which models are you referring to? For example did Gibson advertise the F-2 as maple backed when they were mostly birch? Or were some F-4s shipped as birch backed etc.? Of course the arch top guitars were all over the place on woods - - especially backs.
    Bernie
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  17. #40
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    there's also the Blue Comet!

    f-d
    ˇpapá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

  18. #41
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    The Shutt styles with those shoulders.
    The bandolim style as different from the standard A
    The reverse scroll Regal, looking like a smurf cap
    The Giacomel style
    The Bacon style with two sets of shoulders

    I and haven't even opened Graham's book...
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  19. #42
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I don't think bowlbacks have maple backs, do they? I don't think the staves are maple, or rarely anyway.
    Lots of Emberghers and Calaces have maple bowls. The Italian makers pretty much used either maple or rosewood. The American makers used much less maple, tho Vega did on Pettine and Abt artist models.

    Whoops! Corrrection... Pettine models had rosewood bowls - I should know I have two of them. The Abt model was made with maple bowl.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #43
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Lots of Emberghers and Calaces have maple bowls. The Italian makers pretty much used either maple or rosewood. The American makers used much less maple, tho Vega did on Pettine and Abt artist models.
    Yea, I am finding this out. I just didn't know.

    I would think the mandolin top wood choices would be based on the same criteria bowlback or not, because they are required to do much the same thing regardless of how the back is made.

    But I wonder if that is true for the backs. Is maple chosen for the staves of a bowlback for the same reasons maple is chosen for other mandolins? Do the advantages of maple still apply?
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  21. #44
    Registered User Elkhorn1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    All I can add to this thread is if you haven't tried alternative woods for mandolins you're doing yourself a huge disfavor. Many of the woods I've used for my instruments make for incredible sounding mandolins! Cedar and Redwood sound boards on top of exotic woods have some of the best tone I've heard. Check my website for examples elkhornmandolins.com.One example here is one of my latest... Mango/Red Cedar Elkhorn F-5Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #45

    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    That mango is beautiful.

  24. #46
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Conservatives

    my daughters Weber is englemann top with mahogany back and sides. its plenty loud, but has a very sweet timbre to the notes(as Tony mentioned above). I've been playing it lately and I love the thing.


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    I really like this Skip Kelley F made with walnut back and sides:
    http://www.vintagemandolin.com/13skipkelly_042.html
    Click image for larger version. 

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    played here by Skip

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