What sounds like a Loar?

[JKA]

What modern mandolin sounds like a Loar? Assuming I had a healthy budget of around $20k (or less) and wanted something that sounded as close as possible to a Loar, what should I be looking at?

Keith

[almeriastrings]

Your first problem is that not all Loars sound the same....

[JKA]

Your first problem is that not all Loars sound the same....

I guessed that as soon as I hit the post button...! Ok, what about most typically Loar sounding...if that's doable?

[mrmando]

A Wiens? A Minarovic? A Gibson Master Model?

[Lord of the Badgers]

Quite - which Loar are we talking about? Where did you hear it? Youtube? Played by that Thile chap (or other known example player)?

Or did you get to play one in a familiar room where you play your normal mandolin? Where you can really hear how it sounds with your own technique?

Not being awkward, I just think you need to try as many real world mandolins as possible...

[Demetrius]

Yes all Loars sound different, but! The part of them that we all chase after is still the same. There is a certain quality in a Loar that no matter which one I've played, It has it!
Some are louder, some have more bass, some have more highs, some even have a lot
more sustain. One the other hand they all have that core sound a lot of builders and a lot
of players are chasing after. So when someone asks what mandolin sounds like a Loar?
I don't think it's fair responding with well "which one"? We all know "which one" because
it's every one. They've all got that Loar sound.
Just like with a seasoned musical band! They have a bunch of different songs, but when
when it comes down to it most have an over all sound that make them unique.
For example. If I posted an ad asking, what band sounds like Nickel Creek..
Would any one respond with which one? No... People would start listing of
Bands, if any- who have a resemblance to that core sound of Nickel Creek.

Builders are influenced by Loars, and many are chasing that core sound.
So asking which builder is getting close to that seems like a really good
question to, because there is enough of us who want to know the answer to
that too...

[BrianWilliam]

If you had that kind of budget, why wouldn't you buy a plane ticket to "Nash-vile" to try out a loar and some modern copies?

[fscotte]

Red Diamonds.

[Glassweb]

when we talk about the "Loar tone" we're really talking about the Gibson tone as well. it's not like a Gilchrist F4 (great as they are) sounds much like a Gibson F4. what Gibson achieved before, during and after the Loar era will never be equalled.

but back to the question at hand... i'd have to say the most Loar-like mandolins i've played have been some Derrington era Master Models and especially the Distressed Master Models... there's my 2 cents...

[Demetrius]

I agree, I had a prototype Gibson DMM and it had a lot of that sound going on.
Not sure why I sold it... Stupid

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Hmm-I would say some Loars sound like a Loar!!!

But for real, I've played Red Spruce topped Kimble's, Gil's, Duff's, Randy Wood's, Gibson MM's that I've felt were "Loar like" which, to me, is a traditional, narrow sound with lots of mids, smooth highs and not too much bass. And I tend to feel those are mandolins that you can really hit hard without breaking up. They don't tend to be very loud and tend to be quite dry without a ton of overtones swirling around. They have a strong core tone. I've always felt small frets, a flat board and a narrow neck contribute to that sound as well. This is all just my opinion of course.

[Willie Poole]

All Loars don`t sound alike is true but one thing is that when I hear a mandolin being played I can tell if it is a Loar about 95% of the time...The other 5% means they need a set up...

My vote goes for a Randy Wood F- model...

[red7flag]

The three modern instruments that I have played (I owned a Stanley and RSDMM) that came closest to the Loar sound was one of three Red Diamonds that were at his IBMA table, two Stanleys F5, one my own and the best, one in white at his SPGBMA table (what got me to get Chris to make mine, what a beast) and one RSDMM that I owned and sold (as good as that instrument was, it was not right for me, neck was a bit too narrow).

[JKA]

Yes all Loars sound different, but! The part of them that we all chase after is still the same. There is a certain quality in a Loar that no matter which one I've played, It has it!
Some are louder, some have more bass, some have more highs, some even have a lot
more sustain. One the other hand they all have that core sound a lot of builders and a lot
of players are chasing after. So when someone asks what mandolin sounds like a Loar?
I don't think it's fair responding with well "which one"? We all know "which one" because
it's every one. They've all got that Loar sound.
Just like with a seasoned musical band! They have a bunch of different songs, but when
when it comes down to it most have an over all sound that make them unique.
For example. If I posted an ad asking, what band sounds like Nickel Creek..
Would any one respond with which one? No... People would start listing of
Bands, if any- who have a resemblance to that core sound of Nickel Creek.

Builders are influenced by Loars, and many are chasing that core sound.
So asking which builder is getting close to that seems like a really good
question to, because there is enough of us who want to know the answer to
that too...

Thanks for that. That's exactly what I wanted to ask but you've put it much more eloquently than I could have done.

It's an academic question really as I have two great mandolins (NF5s and Flatty Festival) which I intend keeping as I love the sound of both. Was just wondering...

[goose 2]

My vote is also for the Derrington era Master Modes. I have owned a few and have owned one of the DMM prototypes for 12 years now. Never parting with it. Next choice would be a Red Diamond. Those vintage and replica series ones that I have played are very special.

[9lbShellhamer]

Red Diamond, Gibson MM... although I haven't played a Loar personally so what do I know? Not much. I'm personally more concerned with playing a mando who's tone I personally love, regardless of make/model and finding which "tool" fits my needs the best in the moment.

[JeffD]

What modern mandolin sounds like a Loar? Assuming I had a healthy budget of around $20k (or less) and wanted something that sounded as close as possible to a Loar, what should I be looking at?

I believe there are more than a few modern makers whose mandolins sound every bit as good as a Loar, but different, and perhaps in some cases better. But because of how we rigged the game, with the Loar sound being the center of the target, one can only get as close as possible.

Its just the same in the violin world, where that Strad sound is the defined center of the target. People wrack their brains to figure out how Antonio did it. The truth is that all he did was make a darn fine instrument; the musical culture coalesced around the Strad sound to make it iconic.

But this is a digression. There are good answers to the actual question posed.

[carleshicks]

I've only played about 6 Loars so I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the Derrington era Master Models ( I haven't played a Harvey era yet ) posses it as well as the one red diamond that I've played. Gil's, Dudenbostel's, duff's and quite a few other builders produce some absolutely amazing instruments, but they don't push air the same as a Loar.

[Ken Waltham]

Yes all Loars sound different, but! The part of them that we all chase after is still the same. There is a certain quality in a Loar that no matter which one I've played, It has it!
Some are louder, some have more bass, some have more highs, some even have a lot
more sustain. One the other hand they all have that core sound a lot of builders and a lot
of players are chasing after. So when someone asks what mandolin sounds like a Loar?
I don't think it's fair responding with well "which one"? We all know "which one" because
it's every one. They've all got that Loar sound.
Just like with a seasoned musical band! They have a bunch of different songs, but when
when it comes down to it most have an over all sound that make them unique.
For example. If I posted an ad asking, what band sounds like Nickel Creek..
Would any one respond with which one? No... People would start listing of
Bands, if any- who have a resemblance to that core sound of Nickel Creek.

Builders are influenced by Loars, and many are chasing that core sound.
So asking which builder is getting close to that seems like a really good
question to, because there is enough of us who want to know the answer to
that too...

This quote has the most merit I've seen in a long time. I have a long and constant exposure to Loars over the last 20 years, and, fact is, they do sound the same. At the VERY least, a lot more similar than different. My own personal experience in owning 12 Loars now, and an unsigned, is that they are most definitely family, in the same way that we are more similar to our siblings... as a rule.. than we are different. It does not matter if we are talking Virzi or not, they are still the same. Differences that appear are really like splitting hairs.
As an aside.. there are no bad ones. These discourses always make me smile. Trust me on that.. they are all good. I just bought one that had been universally panned as "quiet.. weak.. tight.", all the usual bad comments. One 10 minute visit at my luthier's, and I walked out with a totally different instrument, and now, 4 months later, it is as good as any I've had.
I've told this story before. but here goes again... Back years ago, I had a sidebound July 9 F5, and a Feb 18, 1924 F5 at the same time. The July 9 was just my total fave.. I felt I knew it's sound anywhere, I played and gigged with it all the time, we were joined at the hip, so to speak.
I went down to Lynn Dudenbostel's to stay for a few days, and we had sort of a Loar Fest there one evening. We did a blind test, where one guy played the different Loars, and we had our backs turned. Do you know.. none of us.. especially me.. could even tell their own instrument. So, which one sounds most like a Loar??
To my ear, none, but, that's just me. You can get SOME of it, perhaps from a MM, or other, but, only a marginal amount. Age is the factor that cannot be duplicated.

[barry]

Ken Waltham said:
"I went down to Lynn Dudenbostel's to stay for a few days, and we had sort of a Loar Fest there one evening. We did a blind test, where one guy played the different Loars, and we had our backs turned. Do you know.. none of us.. especially me.. could even tell their own instrument. So, which one sounds most like a Loar??
To my ear, none, but, that's just me. You can get SOME of it, perhaps from a MM, or other, but, only a marginal amount. Age is the factor that cannot be duplicated.[/QUOTE]"




I completely believe this. They all "sound" like Loars. The "sound" of various Loars has less individual variation than their "feel". If you were to play each instrument, yourself, blindfolded, you would be much more likely to identify each one by their response.

[Ken Waltham]

Ken Waltham said:
"I went down to Lynn Dudenbostel's to stay for a few days, and we had sort of a Loar Fest there one evening. We did a blind test, where one guy played the different Loars, and we had our backs turned. Do you know.. none of us.. especially me.. could even tell their own instrument. So, which one sounds most like a Loar??
To my ear, none, but, that's just me. You can get SOME of it, perhaps from a MM, or other, but, only a marginal amount. Age is the factor that cannot be duplicated.

"




I completely believe this. They all "sound" like Loars. The "sound" of various Loars has less individual variation than their "feel". If you were to play each instrument, yourself, blindfolded, you would be much more likely to identify each one by their response.[/QUOTE]

Agree completely. And.. if you had them all set up by a very competent luthier, like Steve Gilchrist.. even that factor would greatly diminish.

[John Adrihan]

Hmm-I would say some Loars sound like a Loar!!!

But for real, I've played Red Spruce topped Kimble's, Gil's, Duff's, Randy Wood's, Gibson MM's that I've felt were "Loar like" which, to me, is a traditional, narrow sound with lots of mids, smooth highs and not too much bass. And I tend to feel those are mandolins that you can really hit hard without breaking up. They don't tend to be very loud and tend to be quite dry without a ton of overtones swirling around. They have a strong core tone. I've always felt small frets, a flat board and a narrow neck contribute to that sound as well. This is all just my opinion of course.

Wait a minute, I thought that Loars were bassy? That's something that makes them stand out?

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Fortunately - to my ears - no.

[Wayne Shelton]

Don Macrostie who builds the Red Diamonds has worked at reproducing the sound of the Loar era instruments. He took 3 specific well-known mandolins and studied them in detail to try and obtain their specific sounds. Those 3 mandolins were the 1922 "Crusher" owned by David Grisman, the1924 Loar owned by John Reischman, and the 1925 Fern owned by Bobby Osborne. He then made 6 copies of each of those 3. Those 18 mandolins became the "replica series". I believe that those may be pretty close to the original intruments.

[JKA]

Just before this post comes it it's natural end, I'd like to thank everyone for their contribution. It's particularly great to hear from Loar owners and have found all the comments really useful
Cheers