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Thread: Mandolin to guitar transition

  1. #1
    Registered User mobi's Avatar
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    Question Mandolin to guitar transition

    In this forum I have seen many people picked up mandolin after years of experience in guitars.

    How it works other way round? Will it be easy to pick up guitar after having some experience in mandolin?


  2. #2

    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I played guitar for many years (never particularly well) before taking up the mandolin. I have hardly touched a guitar since, but any time I do, I'm immediately struck by the comparatively huge stretches involved for the fretting hand. Of course, that's entirely relative, and after a few days it wouldn't be a big deal.

    But I don't think a person taking up the guitar for the first time after learning the mandolin is going to derive much from being able to play mandolin. Six strings offer so many more permutations, and the absence of regular 'fifth' intervals on the guitar makes things all the more awkward, especially when playing melodies.

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    Registered User mobi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    absence of regular 'fifth' intervals on the guitar makes things all the more awkward,
    Can you please explain why? Comparing mandolin vs guitar fret board diagrams, it is not clear to me. All I see that one needs to move to next string quicker because of 4th tuning instead of 5th. Or is it because mandolin fret board is more symmetrical across strings? It seems in guitar every string fetting is different.

    One issue I see that guitar is tuned to lower frequency. The high E string is E4 compared to E5 in mandolin. Does it mean common mandolin sheet music is not suitable for playing in guitar?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    The tonal 'gap' between any pair of mandolin courses is always a fifth (i.e. seven frets). This means that fingerings can be moved across the fretboard to get a chord partial that is exactly a fifth higher or lower. It also means that scale fingerings starting on, say, the G string can be applied exactly the same way, for example, starting on the D or A string - no changes in fingerings, though of course the scales themselves change. On the guitar, there are regular tonal gaps (five frets) from E - A - D - G, then a four-fret gap to B and a final five-fret gap to the top E. So whenever you play a melody that includes the B string, you have to compensate your fingering for the different gap from G to B.

    Of course a million guitarists have done this perfectly well for centuries, but for someone coming from the mandolin, it could present extra difficulties.

    Which is a long-winded way of saying I don't think playing mandolin will help you learn guitar better than someone who never played any instrument, apart from pick skills and finger calluses acquired while playing mandolin.

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    Registered User mobi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    OK, now I get it. Indeed the tuning between G and B strings are not in 4th!

    So just need to accept that mandolin and guitars are tuned/played differently

    What strings are most frequently played in guitars? Are these lower 3 strings? How one will play mandolin's E5 equivalent notes in guitar?

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    Also, does it mean that a guitarist needs to move across strings more frequently rather than across frets on same strings as in mandolin?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I think that knowing one stringed instrument is helpful in learning another stringed instrument. That's not to say that knowing how to play a mandolin directly transfers to the guitar however.

    You will be learning the chords for each instrument. If you are familiar with the notes on each string (GDAE) of the mandolin them you will at least know those strings on the guitar. As well, the music theory is the same for any instrument so learning a second instrument has to be a little easier than learning a first instrument.

    I first learned to play a guitar and then quickly learned (somewhat) to play a mandolin and a ukulele. I'm not great at any of them but learning to play the ukulele and mandolin was easier than when I first learned to play the guitar.

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    Registered User mobi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Is it true that guitar is much better at sustaining notes compared to mandolin?

    I think mandolin technique of sustaining notes via tremolo doesn't always go well in some genres.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I think your picking hand holds most of the skills, and that plus your finger calluses and ability to finger notes, carries right over to guitar and back. There are plenty of differences, string and fret gaps, tunings, 6 strings vs. 4, but you have a big head start on playing one by being skilled in playing the other, at least playing with flat picks.
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    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I think the whole "mandolin is easier because it's tuned in fifths" idea is overrated. If you learn your barre chords, you can play anything you want anywhere up and down the guitar neck.
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    I think the whole "mandolin is easier because it's tuned in fifths" idea is overrated. If you learn your barre chords, you can play anything you want anywhere up and down the guitar neck.
    I agree on both counts, but going from guitar to mando, the symmetrical tuning sure is a pleasant surprise

    At first I didn't think much of my guitar skill was translating to mando, but once I got used to the smaller everything, I think a lot of it kicked in. I bet the same would be true going the other way.
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    Registered User mobi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Are the concepts like tremolo and double stops applicable to guitar?

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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Quote Originally Posted by mobi View Post
    Are the concepts like tremolo and double stops applicable to guitar?
    Just as I will defend playing the mandolin in a mandolinny way and not "playing guitar on a mandolin" or "playing fiddle on a mandolin" I think the concept is reversible.

    You don't want to play mandolin on the guitar. The guitar has its own set of idioms and tropes, strengths and weaknesses, and while we always have an "accent" from where we came, I think its best to get right to the guitarish stuff.

    There are creative folks who would say "of course, you can do anything on anything", and I don't disagree. My complete thought is that playing mandolinishly on a guitar because its an effect you are trying to achieve - is great. Do it. Playing mandolinishly on a guitar because you only know how to play mandolinishly, well that's not so great.

    I did not play guitar before learning mandolin, and I have taken guitar lessons and work at it. I am still figuring out how to be expressive with a guitar. Its different enough from the ways to be expressive on mandolin.
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I played both fiddle and guitar before mandolin, and to me the mandolin is kind of like the love child of both, with the 5th tuning and fingering patterns of the fiddle with the pick and frets of the guitar, and the addition of its own characteristics like double courses. That being said, mandolin is its own thing and almost nothing translates technique wise. If you learn chord melody style like a jazz guitarist then yes, they use double and triple stops. And the only tremolo guitar technique in guitar playing I am aware of is a multi finger classical technique (which I was never able to master). Listen to "Malaguena" and you will hear it.

    The biggest thing that transfers from one string instrument from another, in my opinion, is not technique but music theory, an understanding of how music is put together and how the notes are laid out on a fret or finger board.

    As far as the physical finger stretches on the two instruments, I find that even though the mandolin is smaller, the fifths tuning puts all the fingered notes a little more distant, while the bigger fret spacing on a guitar is mitigated by the tuning in 4ths and a 3rd. So it's a wash.
    Don

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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Quote Originally Posted by mobi View Post
    Are the concepts like tremolo and double stops applicable to guitar?
    Yes. Neither of these are exclusive to mandolin. I was playing double stops on guitar for years before I knew it was called that.
    Soliver arm rested and Tone-Garded Northfield Model M with D’Addario NB 11.5-41, picked with a Wegen Bluegrass 1.4

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    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    The horizontal travel is different on closed scales,for the most part, the mandolin is notes of 4 on one string, the guitar is notes of 3 across the board...

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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    Well ... yes and no.... The addition of a B string has been discussed and will be cussed as you learn to deal with it. Tuning in fourths instead of fifths is quite different. The lowest pitch are compared are backwards so it is in effect a brain tease when you first start to play melodies. Cross picking as a technique does cross over into guitar playing. As does the use of arpeggios and partial scales , though the patterns are different the concepts are the same. And a plectrum , pick, is a plectrum. You may want to select a different pick thickness and shape for your guitar work. Many of us do. The natural resonance in the larger body of a guitar stops you from needing to tremolo but as an occasional triplet the skill comes in handy. Also most everything is played down up down up . Depending on what style of music you wish to learn your knowledge of chords and their forms will have to extend. Folk Bluegrass Country use open string first position and dominant 7th chords primarily, Rock gets into barre chords and Jazz and Swing start you into chord extensions 6th 9th 13th and major 7ths. But chord construction is always the same so if you understand how to make extended chords on a mandolin you can work them up on a guitar. Sooooo yes and no ..... luck and patience R/
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  18. #17

    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I had an interesting experience just last week that is {somewhat on a tangent) relevant in a backwards sort of way. I played acoustic guitar heavily the last part of 2015. I was playing often and was getting somewhat ok at it. In my search for new acoustic music to listen to I came across The Pizza Tapes. I heard this wonderful expressive and colorful mandolin playing by some guy called Grisman but everybody seemed to refer to as Dawg. I had no idea at the time who this was. I was entranced by the music and sound he created and then recalled that I had always loved Battle of Evermore and Going to California so it made sense that I should really like the mandolin.

    I did a little research on the mandolin and discovered that it is strung and tuned just like a violin. I played violin when I was in my 20’s so knew the music and the fret board fairly well. So I decided to get one and try it out. From the moment that I brought my mandolin home (feb 2016) I have rarely touched my acoustic guitar. I get these urges too and then get it out and think it’s great for about 15 minutes then wind up getting my mandolin out.

    It was during one of the urges, just last week as mentioned above prior to my rambling that I got my guitar out and played it after months of not. I was really impressed by my right hand agility and that it had come a long way in the last few months. My rhythm strumming was right on, syncopation was good. Playing the mandolin so much DID make me a better guitar player in that I have been focusing on my right hand so much that when I picked up the guitar for simple rhythm chords its was easy-peasy.

    Now the only conclusion that I can draw from that is that playing mandolin so much did help my guitar playing and I also have a feeling that if I picked up any stringed instrument I would have a head start as my right hand knows what to do and when. Now, sure all different techniques and sounds but the basic start of right hand training is really the same.

    That is my experience for what it is worth to this conversation.

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I have been teaching myself to play a few fiddle tunes on guitar for an upcoming recording project. (I strated on guitar many years ago but don't play much anymore. I have guitarplayers now. ) I'm just going note for note with the mandolin versions I already know. It saves having to learn a different version of the tune.

    I tend to use my pinky a LOT even in place of open strings. Not because it's ergonomically easier, but because that's how I'm comfortable these days.

    Guitar is definitely NOT easier to play than mandolin. And moving to guitar from mandolin does not really make the technique any easier to master.

    Just my £0.02
    Daniel

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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    every time I pick up a guitar now, I end up thinking "This stupid thing is upside down and its too stinkin' big!"
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    Market Man Barry Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin to guitar transition

    I like to play lots of stuff. remembering tunings gets me sometimes but every instrument I think helps. learning strumming techniques for ukulele is different than guitar etc. guitar is my main instrument nowadays, but I try to give them all some love.
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